Vested Capital
Vested Capital

Episode 1 · 5 months ago

(EP1): Mark Asquith Captivate.fm Founder, The Podcast Industry For Startups, How To Focus On Multiple Projects

ABOUT THIS EPISODE

Mark Asquith, otherwise known as the 'British Podcast Guy' is the founder of several podcast related companies, including Captivate.fm, a web hosting, analytics and distribution SAAS for podcasters.

Mark, like many entrepreneurs, got his start with an agency doing general web and media development services. Eventually this led to a spinoff podcast specific web design company, which Mark and his Co-Founder left the agency to focus on.

After entering the world of podcasting Mark never looked back, launching his own shows, attending conferences and building more support services for podcasters. He also has plans for a team engagement tool, which he recently patented and will be launching soon.

I wanted to speak to Mark because there is a difference between running an agency and building websites, to then diving into the world of SAAS and now also physical products. 

It's not easy to make all these different types of business models work, but as you will hear in the interview, Mark had a method and a plan for moving from one focus to the next, allowing a business to grow, adding a team, then moving on to the next step.

Enjoy the interview.

Yaro

Podcast: https://www.yaro.blog/pod/
Blog: https://www.yaro.blog/

Hello, this is Yaro stark and welcometo a vested capital episode one. This is the first episode of my newrebranded show featuring a guest. His name is mark, as with he is the founderof captive, ate dot, F, M and rebel base media. We're going to talk aboutmark's history, how we started a whole bunch of different businesses,including an agency, a podcast web design company and his most current andthe business that I really got involved with called captive, ate God fm ahosting and Statistics Platform for PODCAST ers. I am in the process ofexperimenting with different new tools for this brand new version of mypodcast. If you are interested, of course, you can hear the story behindwhy I changed the name of my show. It used to be called the Arrow podcast andbefore that the entrepreneurs journey podcast going back fifteen years, youcan still listen to what I believe are some of the best episodes from thoseshows in the feed of the show you're listening to now. So I popped fiftyplus episodes, but I thought were the most relevant for this new topic ofvested capital going forward some great guests, and if you go back to theprevious episode just before this one episode zero of vested capital, youwill hear my background story around how I've built capital, what kind ofbusinesses I've started how I've invested in so on. I gave you a bit ofa primer as we dive into this new topic with guests, beginning today with mark,so you can learn about mark and how he started both his agencies, his webdesign, podcast design site how he marketed them, and also how he's builtteams Groan his company and chosen what to do he's a one of those multi fascionre Preneurs who likes to do different things. So, if you're like that- andyou also want to different things- you might gain a little bit of insight fromwhat mark has done with his own career and, of course, if you're in the podcasting space at all. This will be interesting to you as well so I'llpress plan on that episode in just a second first of all, I want to mentionI'm not going to really call it a sponsor, because I don't really feellike that's the appropriate label for this, but it is my company. It's calledin Box Don Com, I'm going to say that the best of capital show is brought toyou by in box done at least for this episode in Box. Tone is a service wherewe take over managing your email for you. So if you're drowning an email,perhaps you're drowning and support desk tickets customer support tickets,you need someone, do either step in and take over up to eight ninety, even ahundred percent of your email, and when I say that I mean replying to yourmessages, not just organizing them but actually replying to them. Then we canhelp. It's got inbox, doncourt a CO found of the company a number of yearsago and I'd love to help you if you need some help with email. Okay, that'sit for my little spiel about my company, and here is the episode today with Mark,as with hey mark. So thanks for joining me, we were just talking buying thescenes there about your podcast hosting company, I'm actually using river side,which is the podcast streaming platform and you on you're my first guest onthis platform, but love to learn. So much about you mark and I'm bringingyou on soda as the first guest, because, I'll be honest, captivate your hostingdistribution service for podcast. I was making this choice about whatplatforms to use, including Riverside. You came up you're, a friend of a fewmutual friends David Bane Chris Tucker and yeah. I just lot be great to getyou on the show he to talk a little about the tech behind podcast ing, butbe you as a founder of obviously tech, the podcast ing company and justeverything in your background. So maybe you could first of all give me asummary might be a long summary of what is everything you're involved withright now, good question. So thanks for Torei's a real pleasure, I'm delightedto do this. So what I do now is, I run a number of different businesses inpodcast and all various stages in their life cycle and will perhaps get to theoriginal business in podcast ing because that's quite an interestingstory that leads to captivate in a few...

...others, but just to very quicklysummarize it Kanan, I, my curl founder, were collectively known as rube bestmedia. I can see on the on the video version of this that you've got a a tatthere behind you. We are also star wars, Geeks see you and at that guy I, like talways argue with my has toarst coost. I do feel a bit like a trader becauseI'm actually a tricky before I'm a star wars person it just. I happened to havethis on the wall, so, but I like a it's like that smooth yeah, yeah and it's you know thecompany that we run is is kind of is named after the rebel base on theoven and so on. So we kind of deep he he and I care, and I geeks at heart andwe built businesses. You know we use our collective to really kind of testideas out and then, when, when we, when we decide that we enjoy one or we getsome traction in when we spin that out into a specific business, recruit theteam in. Let them help us to scale it and really build business by businessand we've done that a few times in podcast ing. So what I do now is, I runcaptivate DOT FM, which is the host in platform that we talked about, so thata world class first in analytic and distribution platform for podcast areon the original business podcast website, which is sort of like a w Pcurve style platform or service. Just for podcast Ers we've got an educationmembership that would just transitioning into something to do withcaptivate and we also run an interaction. Tech Startup, which is apure sort of you, know punt of a start up as morestartups are, which is purely around audience: Engagement and interaction inpodcast, ing and a podcast as well about star wars and podcast aboutpodcast, ING and speak events and write in places and so on. So that's what I do and I'm fully in thePODCAST ING industry. That's my daily job! So yeah, it's what I do every dayand I okay it is it fair to say: they'll captivate is the big one inthat sort of collection of companies yeah, I think so. Captive is certainlythe one that people people know is the most foreign that people you know mostpeople use. You know it's a hosting platform and Ithink every podcast needs a host in platform of course. So it's certainlythe one that stood necessity in the podcast ing stack, the other ones sortof Nice to have for people, so people do nose for captivite. Even thoughthat's one of the youngest businesses, it's the one where we helped the mostpodcast Ers, and it's one where we make the most noise right now, because we'rejust always releasing features, so he never to it. There's a low noise thatcomes with that sort of yeah captivates, certainly the one that people recognizefor now. I was actually curious with captivate as a I call it a SASS. Ibelieve I mean it's a definitely a software platform that you pay asubscription for. I spent like a few days of the last week getting familiarwith everything you know it's got analytics on your downloads. Obviouslyit's got all the settings to control each individual episode that you upload lots of bells and whistles around the hosting and distribution of yourshow just to control the variables and make it easier to share. I love thefact that it creates a sort of a website like a verse on Pino of apodcast website that you could totally run with as your main website for yourpodcast. So that's all like it sounds like a lot of things going on and I canimagine as a unchar myself, who has attempted several times to buildsoftware based companies. The engineering that goes on behind thesecompanies can be a challenge to say the least. So is there like? Who is yourteam with captivate and how hard is it being to grow this type of softwarecompany versus, say a media company like a podcast which, let's face it asa podcast er? It's a lot easier. You re cordial you up loaded in a way you go,there's no programming and so on yeah. It's a deep kind of approach to this aswell Yaro. So we...

...here now I've got a very specific modellike we were very fortunate. You know we pore get to the background of thingsin a little while, but you'll see sort of when we get to that. The Mybackground affords me the chance to be able to do certain levels, occured incertainly front ten code and got a decent eye for design, and I'm reallykind of you know a head in product and Bram strategy where is cerines athrough and through programmer. So when you put those two heads together,that's why we're able to create things like robe, Bas, media, where we cantake a product and sort of prototype it get it to version one so captivate. Asyou see it today was you know, outside of some of the more late traditions tothe team. It was pretty much built by Ken and I over the course of twothousand and nineteen really the Earl stage of o thousand and nineteen fromJanuary to thousand and nineteen to the launch. In August we got a first userin April, which was the in anesone gray and then and then launched him intoBeta in August and that that was he and I you know, we built the thing up andwe spent countless nights sat around a table saying, do you know what let'sscrap this and move to something else, and let's scrap how this creat episodepage looks and just start from scratching. We literally just did thatall ourselves, and it's only now that we've got the team and our model is tokind of go from zero to one and then hire the team in you know, firstlybolstered by support and then some engineers and then more recently, I hada design, a digital marked in manager, and you know when we look at what's comingnext for captivite the the version to which is going to be launching veryvery soon. Actually it's going to be launching in June two thousand andtwenty one, and that is such a platform like it has everything that captivehold true and dear, which is the ease of use and everything that you'd expectfrom from the brand. But it's like a real platform, whereas when I log intocaptivite now it's just me thinking. This is the thing that K and I builtthat Wednesday night. You know we built the the single pro moling. We justbuilt it on a Wednesday night with a curry, and it was like this weird thing,so the founding team were really the engineers and the builders and themarketers. Now we were M, you know not taking that lightly and not saying thatflippantly we were very fortunate to have had what I call sort of a bridging businessin podcast ing. So we were our original word press business in podcast, inwhich we still run to the states of great business and a fantastic service, but we'd sort of been afforded thechance to have a few years in the industry. Where we speak events wherewe would, you know, we travel and would be around speaking a podcast movementand pod fast produce in our episodes speaking to podcast, ers, so kind of byproxy. We done so much as a research, so there is sort of a potential for itto sound a little bit flipping hen. I say well just curing an eye on on anight time. Building it the the pre work that we've done by proxy of theother business is not to be underestimated. That wasthe thing that we really got lucky with, because we were just able to gatherthat Intel very, very early on but yeah. That's that's how we gotthere and we know from a founders perspective we set. We actually setthree very specific things up when we built the business. I think this isinteresting from a business death perspective. We said that the three thethree things that we were going to use a sort of bench marksfor scaling. Were we weren't going to introduce things like annual plansuntil we hit a certain MRO threshold so that we could bolt to the bottom lineand not require funding? The second thing that we did was we said that wewill always be in support. You know we will. We will just we will be there insupport. That will be our number one priority and then the third thing, whenwe do eventually begin to hire, which we started doing later, two thousand and nineteen. Thefirst thing that we would hire would be support and would really button up thatexperience, part of it so yeah. That's that's a bit of the background on howwe got from that that kind of nothingness to it to a launch. It was some late nice running thosesome arguments. You Know Ian,...

I'm glad to hear about the focus onsupport. As you know, I run in box tone which is all about you know doing youremail on your customer support, and I think that is one of the first thingsyou need to handle, except with a software company. You have to startwith something software or later. There's no point, you have nothing tosupport. So, let's, let's go back in time, because I can really feel in yourcase mark there's a lot of connecting the dots between projects here, there'sa real sense of one leading to the other, obviously you're known as theBritish podcast guy so born and raised somewhere on the island. Is this thatcorrect? It is yeah, do so much travel but we're right here now we just movedactually more into the middle of England, and I should add that I gotthat sort of Monica from the early days of podcast move. When I used to travelout I'd like be the only English guy there and people could never remembermy name, they used to confuse it with mark or matter or something else, and it was due described to me that peoplewould always just say well, which ones here is that realish podcast guy? It'sthat British can well that demands available so we'll have that I've beenthe guy with hair. I've been Stralian with the Canadian accent, it's easierfor us to just have one thing that people know is fine and that's it, sowe should be. Like really is podcast. Everyone remembers you exactly exactly.I am grateful for that and it's that sort of testament that use a researchthat I mentioned earlier. That sort of testament to you know some of the friendships thatare built very, very early on in podcast, ING, podcast ing, still a verysmall ecosystem, despite been a multi billion dollar industry. Now you knowwhen I, when I got into it in thousand and twelve wo thousand and thirteen itwas. You know there was a hundred and eighty thousand podcast versus twopoint, one million that there is today and that stock connects to somethingthat you mention as well Yaow, which is that connection of the dots you knowthe past life connecting to podcast ing and to where we are now. It was around that time that thattransition started to happen. So my old life was an agency, and you know webuilt this- this small agency in Barnsley in England, where we know wewere very focused agency we'd. We acquired a printing, come in aphotography company and you know we were working on the standard kind ofwebsite build. You know the five ten fifteen ground website builds and thenstart to build software for education and do brand in work or for some of thebig brands in the world and ended up doing covers for like New York Timesand all this. So I sort scaled this agency. What what you as but then wasit sorry? What Year did you start that? So we started that in about twothousand and eight and that time period where it scaled it was around, was around twenty thirteen, twothousand and fourteen which sort of segued with the podcast in there wasthat kind of that kind of dove tail between the Moin World. My show myfirst sorters in on my show was two udd five, so I and like I don't know howmany podcast existed in two thousand and five, not many S. just to I just love to know thatreally really early day, so you in two thousand and eight in Barnsley, yourstarting an agency. was there any like of pride to that any kind of successfulbusiness or you. I don't know how old you are you mark and o. If you are ayoung lad, you know going to university before that or not, but I don't knowwhat was the growing up like Yeah T. I wish I was young. I just Iwear the hat, so I can hide the grey I was in about two thousand. Eight iswhat I was twenty six years old and the story is a little bit bizarre. Actually I so I dropped out a college, so I leftschool dropped out of college. I was, I didn't, really have much moneyas a kid. Some money was a real big, defining thing for me and when I got tocollege I was at music college and if anyone's watching the video they justsee the musical stuff behind me, I was fortunate that that just that just camefairly naturally so college didn't move quick enough. That's the other thingthat at my brain, doesn't moves really quick, not always to the benefit ofwhat I'm doing, but it does...

...so kind of this. This speed of thinkingin this this this ideation that I was doing and this lack of money. I dropsout college blake my way into a job at like age.Eighteen doing what got, how is a pensions administrator? I remember theCAN. It was dull yeah, exactly exactly it was like. I was. The talk of thetown had ministering those pensions, and I good for reading the ladies walkingto the Er big time if that was fighting them off and to top it off. I the interview that I turned a fat forthis, this job I'd. Actually, I bought a tie. It's awful! I bought this silver timewith a dragon on it. Like you know, one of those two one thousand nine hundredand ninety nine year, two thousand dragon things and we used to wear that in town aswell. So we go out drinking in the same clothes on man. It was awful, and thatwas like eighteen at the time did four years of that realized that I was justbored of it. I wasn't very good at it, but that sort of some of the stuff thatI did there introduce me into code in which will perhaps get to in a bit but had these couple of jobs, and I remember just getting it sort ifyou bore them threshold, is it like one hundred percent at age? Nineteen,that's where I was when I got this job four years later to twenty two twentythree years old and switched the job. Once I moved, I moved a couple hundredmiles when I came back so I switched jobs when I did that three or fouryears later same kind of job boredom threshold down to about ten percent. Ihear to it. It was you know there were people telling me to do things that Ididn't understand, and I don't understand why I had to wear a tie. Whycouldn't I have high lights in my hair in the year? Two Thousand and two, whenyou know the just, I wasn't allowed to do it because it was company policy wasstupid. I got this other job in another city,which is about twenty minutes away from where I lived- and I remember trade inthis job, my old job for a new job and getting a two grand pear eye and thetwo Gran Peer Eyes was like the thing that I chest. So I get to this other job and it's dearwarm. I walk through the door. Son Kind of get up. You know bad sort of bad suit. You know it was awful,nothing fit and walked in and it was like. I put my pen down at the old job andpicked it back up at the new one. Nothing was different and I left I wasthere about an hour and I got up and left and I just said to the manager.Graham, I just said: Look might have been here two hours, it's not causingany problems, but this this is the last time I'm doinganything like this and just left. I didn't have any planet and of anythings walked out and my mom went crazy. It my dad didn't, but my mom did. She wentnuts what what happened after that was really interesting. So I was in abouttwenty grand at that point, which you know for twenty two year old in theyear, two thousand and one two thousand and two two thousandand three was was all right. You know it was all right. I could pay. What Ineeded to pay did a little bit wore my dad hiselectrician, so we got me doing a little bit fetching and carrying for Idon't know five six weeks and I got a job interview for a Free Lance trainer,because I once did some training at my old job. So I put on my on my resume onmy c V. I put on that. I could do training, so Ilooked out into get in this interview and got the job now. It to I didn't knowthis, but it turns out this job was a dare job. So, almost overnight, athousand to twenty three, I went from only twenty grand a year to almost twohundred grand a year. Well and yeah. It was insane man. I waslike what are you. I was the day Ray Yeah so dear. It is where I would turnup, and I would I would. I would be contracted for R a period of time towork with people like the ministry,...

Defense or the National Health Service,and I was contracted for say three months at a time and they would pay mex amount per day. You know three four five hundred pounds per her, which atthat time is insane. It's still amazing money now, and what were you doing isthat as these different places, just teaching train, I was just learningjust learning things. I was learning business development or projectmanagement, and then I was training other people on the things that I'dlearned. So I was you know I would just go inand acquire some skills. The best one that I did was working for the Ministryof Defense, so imagine this twenty two twenty three years old, put ready toput a bill in for four five hundred pounds for the one day's work and, onmy first day, turn to put an Air Strip for the ministry, the defense for thearmy in a suit at twenty three years old. Looking an idiot, this old major,it was called divitas. It was a fantastic guy and it just what are youdressed as and I was like yeah all right. You got me, I said. Well, you know, what's the plan,I'm here to train you on this new recruitment platform and some businesschange around it like? What's the plan and he pointed to a Zippiest, he said:Get up there go down the ZIP. Why a crawl under that cargo, an it get backin your car and go home, and I was like he's out in a life this guy's joking?No, he wasn't right. He wasn't. You got me to go down the Zip way hegot me covered and he I threw the mud and the dirt after I'd finished it Iget you. I was really bizarre. Just came up put his arm round to me andjust said whatever you do come back tomorrow, don't dress like thatdressing, whatever you want, but do a damn good job. For me I'll see youtomorrow, I was like all right, and that was my that was day one on the jobso going from corporate to that it sort of open my eyes, you know actually canearn decent money. You can do a great job for people and this guy respectedme. After one hour more than my old bosses had done for years, because Ididn't jump to their tune, and that was an ione man. Just I am curious. What was the actualjob, though after you did the I s completely off topic in work, but, likeyou use, did you did a zip line? You came back the next day. How do you getbecause you don't get paid paid five hundred pounds a day to ride as ZIPblind that doesn't make sense as a job like what were you actually teachingpeople? I taught them just how to use their ownrecruitment systems. That was it so I got in the week before and learned so Iwent like down south to the south coast, learn how to use this platform and thendear, one was like right: Go back to your territory and your sure train yourlocal army on how to use this software and and at that day one was his way ofbasically breaking down the corporate levels in me and kind of gettingembedded me into his world, because I needed in order to be able to train agrizzly old sergeant, a d and an old major that had left the army and wasnow recruiting new recruits. There was no way they were going to respect meturning up in my suit and telling them how to do the job. So we kind of brokethat down and built it back up with that one hour of work and he stillsigned off the invoice as well. I still got paid five hundred pounds for that,one there, which is fascinating at s good Firak, so you're, making twohundred thousand pounds a year and sounds like before you're, even twentyfive, that's ball or money for anyone thatage you would be living large. Why would you even need to do anything else?You should have just done that for the next few years then have a milliondollars in your back in cup. Before your thirty right, I know right. That's not the way that Iworked, though, so what I realized when I was doingthat job, was that a lot of the challenge that I had withmoney, weren't actually about money. You know that chasing the money wasn'tthe thing that was chesing. I was chasing the control to be able to do what I wanted to do.So I remember one there. There was no...

...need for me to be on, since I wasworking for the National Health Service at this time, and I was, I was workingon a site that was about four hours journey from home and the person whowas running the contract. I said look I have. I have no reason to be on sitetoday. What I'm going to do is instead ofdoing the the eight hours round trip or whatever it was, or coming and stayingaway from family or whatever, I'm just I'm going to work on these trainingmaterials so that I can deliver the cost tomorrow. I can treat you knowwhatever it was. I can do that better for you tomorrow and now you know I hadsome new stuff to write up and she said no, you know we're paying you. We wantyou on side. I said, but you've got nothing for me. This is stupid like.Why would I need to do that and in the exact opposite kind of approach to theold major? She said, if you don't turn up on site and do the small menialthing that I will make sure I find for you, then I will not sign the invoicewell, that was the last they saw of me. You know they didn't. They didn't seeme again because it was. It was ridiculous and ID just said. Well, ifthat's how you run, if that's how you run your business, then this is not forme, and that was the last time that I earned the two hundred thousand dollarsa year, the two hundred thousand pounds a year by billing, someone else. So Ilet you get a fire or like no. No, I just told them I was leaving okay, soyou do. I think this is only one bad case. I could do the next one. Youthought now, I'm out, because I hate not being in control yeah and it was. It was a bear in mind. Thisis twenty three year old me, like thirty nine year old me will be out.Maybe this person's had a bad day. Twenty the year old of me was like thisscrew this. So what did mom say? Were you a? I didn't tell a my lesson. There is one hidden part of that,though, which was alongside all of this. So while I was earning the two hundredgrand and whatever it was, I had built up a little bit of a buffer, not much, but I built upenough that I didn't really need to work for a few months, so I learned how to Code and when thatbuffer started, to drop started to dwindle, start topping it up by sellingwebsite to people. Okay, when you say, learn how to cold in before. Youcontinue that story, because I also started building website at about thesame age, two thousand and three twenty four and I bought myself a textbookteach yourself h, mail in twenty four hours and that's how I learned verybasic website building skills. Now I don't call myself a coder, because Iwould not be able to build a captivate FM like you guys have built today. Ican still only do a few GTEAL tags, not nothing to do with, like ph or or csharp or all the coding language. Nowadays, Ruby an Rales: What did youlearn at that point at twenty three? It was it just website, building basics,because you know there must be a connection and to learning a lot morein the indevout skills. Yes, so I learnt essentially the front ten skills of thetime and and I've sort of kept up with them throughout that as well, eventhough I don't to do much less of it. So at the time it was HM, L CSS ONEPOINT: Zero Before two point: Zero came out and believe it or not, it was flashand action script. Member when that was prevalent on the Web, and then wescaled that you know what I scale my own knowledge through to things likeJava script, G Queer in about two thousand and eight CSS, two point orthree, but you know everything from there, but it was. It was everythingfront end you know I was focused on that, so I'm, like you man, I can't youknow. I can't really build too much on the back end. I can't really do toomuch Ph p or certainly can't do any no dot GS. I can't do anything even withsome of the more modern frame works like Angela, like I'm, really I coulddo it, but man it would be slow, but it was. It was interesting becausethose skills- this was a lesson that I know everyonesort of learned eventually, because I had some of those skills like I wasmore of an expert than the person that needed the website building, so theystarted Im to build the website and...

...suddenly, suddenly I had a websitebusiness, which was really really weird, but I didn't know how to build a business and knew how to cold, but Ididn't know about like a new, have to order a business card and set up my mywebsite that was bad ass. I looked fantastic when I turned up at a meeting,but I didn't know how to close the meeting I didn't now to in voice. Ididn't know how to do contract and any other business stuff, because guesswhat I remember, I dropped out college, so I had to learn all that stuff on thefly and that you know that that eventually led me to to some of macofounders on the agency, where we essentially, I started free Lancing asa web designer or web builder, and we formed an agency with a couple offriends which you know. That's the thing thatwe scaled, but it was tumultuous at the time. It was scary because you know that that run way that hadbuilt up you know in hindsight, like you said, probably, could have stayed all in acouple of hundred grand a year for a little little bit of time and built upa little bit of cash. But it was every day it was five m every day, workingfor people that I didn't get on with yeah it was tough and but then therunway dwindled. You know the ten then and fifteen, whatever grand that hadsaved up, because I didn't have these business skills, they all dwindled. Youknow that money just frittered away. You know so tell usmore about the agency, so agencies building website. It is themost commoditie business on the Internet and I feel safe, saying that'sthe case. Even in two thousand and eight, when you were, you know going onHoe with it. So how big did it get and what was the keyto growth? We got to about twelve people which, for you know a smallagency was, was fantastically profitable, so we had good retainersbuilding digital projects out and we scaled it in such a way that was reallysensible. So we I had two founders corfine at the Timeswas a chap called Don and a chap called Mark, and he was a photographer and Donwas AP printer there. Basically, they brought their skill, so we became veryquickly a full service agents of people came to him. We could do everything forthem. We then merged with another local agency to a basically acquire sometalent and other developer and a fantastic brand designali Wilkinson, orI still work with a branded captive and we, then we sort of we sort ofdepartmentalized a little bit. So I started to lead up the digital stuff,where we build software for education companies and we build platforms forpeople unbeknowns to me like in two thousandand twelve. You know I was building Sass for people and before sat was athing and you know Kay was running the creativearm and don was running the prime time and the off lying on a mat was er inthe photography I and we scaled, that really nice and they ca was doing thepictures. We want some fantastic local authority contracts which were a blessing, a blessing and also abit of a curse. You know, that's that's something that that is another story,but you know we scaled this business, but just just a car of what happened. IS O mark. I know when people say they scale. The business in my mind is likebecause I love talking marketing and traffic word of mouth advertisement inthe local paper. Where were all these customers coming from? Well I'll I'll, tell you the basics ofthat, and then that brings me to the next piece, because this is where itgets interesting. So word of mouth referrals, a lot of I want to say sort of local advertising,but it was. It was much more reputation, management, a lot of par, a lot of verybasic noise making, because you know a e you're right. Web Design wasCommoditie and everything that we did was Comoditie, but back in the day likeno one was doing decent marketing. It was just all shouted sort of look,there's an advert for this digital company and it's two hundred ninetyseven dollars for a basic website. I we didn't do that. We were just very noisyin a way that now would be seen to be very normal, but back then people willlike what what you telling us that for...

...so it was very much that, but that's aninteresting insightful question Ero, because I actually started getting alittle bit bored. No, so I know right can you believe it? It's a good job, no,like ad matured a little bit. Otherwise. I have probably bailed on the industry.Don't do that any more, but what happened was I started to getinto digital and started to think to myself in about two thousand eight, twothousand and nine. You know I'm interested in search, I'm interested inorganic, I'm interested in in this Nason field of content. Guess who that led me to one darn rouseand one yellow start that led me to you guys, and I was like I'm going to studywhat you guys are doing. This is fantastic. This is why it's interestingthat this is full circle and I started studying and learning from you. chapslike this is bad, as this is brilliant, like an interesting thing to be able todo is to spend time seeing what actually works, what and actuallytaking a day to lead approach to things where I've never done that before itwould just kind of throw it out and see what happens, which led me to develop my own skills,which led me to become a little bit more noisy, which led me to push someof the people internally into things that they were a little uncomfortablewith, which then led to me. Leaving the agency- because I wanted to do what I'mdoing now, so this is all traceable back to thediscovery of online marketing back in done, two thousand eight, two thousanda D in maybe a touch later. A lot of people have that kind of story. I thinkthat was like the pivotal learning early years and today they're somethingincredible. They feel something amazing, as you have will take us forward to theagency. I'm assuming you know you make a good living you're, not necessarilyas like a ball or, as you were twenty three year olds are ending. Twothousand might maybe you were, but you know it'snot quite the same when you're working in your own company, like that, youcan't just say no. I don't want to do this anymore. You could but take usforward with the the agency growth because it at some point, if you'regetting into content marketing to me, I just think. Well, you just do contentmarking where clients doesn't necessarily Change Your Business. Itjust adds another service to what you're already doing, but you don't runan agency today, you're totally in the road of podcast ing. So obviouslysomething happened, yeah absolutely well! Conte, MarkenMarketin was in its infancy to hammer that home. I remember goingto talk about two thousand and nine twothousand and ten with someone who branded themselves locally as a contentmarket and she delivered this wonderful talk about content marketing right at the end. She opened it up toquestions which was like the nail in the coughing for her because the lastquestion she got I'll, never forget it me and Ki was sat there and she gets aquestion which is what is content marketing and how can it help mybusiness in a hurt, honest answer in front of everyone that she spent solong convincing to buy from her? Was I don't really know you know I've notfigured it out yet, oh Wowokay, so that I know right. So that's the timing ofcontent marketing so for us to try and sell that the education was so tough topeople like. Why should you pay US hundreds? Thousands of dollars a monthto do something that you really probably can't understand. This is when,like the yellow pages were calling up and saying you know for fifty quid amonth will get your key words to the top of Google and it's there were therewere so hypolita and hyper. Specific key was that I could have done it infifteen minutes. You know it, but people were buying that and that's whatwe were up against. So that's that was tying to happen and because those were sort o the skillsthat I was acquiring, but they were very difficult to sell at that time.Now less sir, my co founders and the other directs in the end so like well,we just need to sell website and stuff, and I was like Ye- that's kind ofboring. So the second thing that happened was actually two things happen. I got intopodcast ING, so I started podcast ing for myself. I did a DC comic podcast.Anyone looking any video of this chat.

You'll see, there's DC comics and staroff stuff. In the background, I love that sort of stuff. So I start apodcast about it with Garry who was now our head of design at Captivite, and I started then thinking we're a seconcould probably apply this to this content marketing stuff that I'm sortof getting into maybe I'll do a business podcast and I did a businesspodcast. The second thing that happened was at the exact same time. I startedlooking at recurring revenue models of business, so I started to say to thedirectors in the business. Why don't we build software? I we're a design agency.Why don't we build a design management platform that we can use, but thenother people can buy from us? Why don't we build a PM system, a projectmanagement system for design Argentes, because guess what nothing exists thatdoes it you know even bass camp was was in the immence back then, and theyweren't interested because they didn't see the value straight away and Sir her and I want of the developers atthe agency. Excuse me as I'd got into podcast ING. I said to the land in theand you so why don't we when it? We take all these things that we do forclients now and we charge a one off thing for and we find it difficult topitch on an ongoing basis. For Word, press management said to Kiran one morning. I've got anidea. I don't wear create. This word pressedmanaged platform, we'll spin it up in our spare time, well partner withsomeone in the podcast, because we didn't have any that wasn't in thepodcast industry, and this is t thousand and twelve, two thousand andthirteen. What part is someone in the podcast ingindustry and see if we can sell it? Someone that's got an audience, so wedid we partner with John from Er fire. We opened it up, and people started pain like from day one.You know in. We actually did an old classic pre launch on that one yar, sowe launched it on a Webbite, didn't even have a product, but we had somebear to use his grandfather din on on a deal and we promised them that by xdate it would be live and they bought into it and we hit the deadline and wenailed it, and that was the transition that was called. That's that is stillcalled just podcast website you can just wild. There was nothing else likeit sweeled your part, Yeah Nice and werepressed for you. Ah Well, it was even more. It was even more automated than that.So we because we were you know again, I can do bits of design and Quantico andwe've got a good design. I we pre built a website. We built a system that would auto deploy,word press and then we built an entire education system around. Why and how tocustomize the design that were given you with a dragon drop builder and soon, and, and we built this entire platform out so people what they do,and this don't be, they can do this to this day. Theoretically, they can signup to the platform. A word press website will be auto deployed and theywill then get all the education and everything that they need to customizeit and the community. That goes and goes with it now. The one thing thatexisted on the back end of that- and this was our last minute decision and Imean like a Negga eleven four decision. I remember talking to a friend of us,some beer, I said: Would you buy this platform if it didn't include podcasthosting an analytic? She was like? No, I wouldn't I like Karen on the phonedude we got to build basic hosting. This is in two thousand and fourteen and the seeds of captive existed inthat hosting so we've been providing that for years and then again there'syou know, there's a there's more to the story where we split them out and buildeach business separately, but that's where it started, and that was thetransition from agency to podcast ING. So did you completely leave the agencyand were you were able to live for time on just what you're Gettingi from thepodcast hosting that's whig podcast...

...website business yeah, Yeah Yeah? We were, you know wewere. It was maybe an eighteen monthtransition period, but from day one ker and I were drawing a salary from fromthe podcast in Web business. Just now like car on fire promoting it was thatI know John finally do us who were talking about here his podcast yeah. Imean it's hes now I think. Even then it would probably- and you had the perfectoffer for his audience. He was selling podcast coaching back then I rememberso that would have given you a flot of new customers. But then then, what like?You have to still keep growing getting new customers right, so it was there agross plan for that company that allowed you to take a salary so quickly. So two parts to that there was a growthplan, but it didn't allow us to take a salary. So there were two disjointedthings: I'll explain what I means it sounds stupid, yeah, the so John's audience, provided a steadystream of lead, which was fantastic, and you know we're still very closewith John and K and t is a they're in a fantastic business. You know in whatthey do we, basically when full ball intoembedding ourselves in the podcast community. You got t remember back inthe day as well. No one was doing word pus, like blueberry kind of had theirsort of plugging. We caused a lot of change in theindustry. I don't mean that to sound like I'm blowing our own trumpets, but we from day one spend our own money,our money on going to podcast movement and exhibiting- and speaking I mean theone. You know we have no right to be there, but we just went and we did it.We brought design to the PODCAST ING Industry, I'm confident in saying that, because we itlooked crap man before then, like everything looked bad and we said well,it doesn't have to, and we also went with an open mind and we helped peopleand we did community things and we did education and he's easy to think. Well,of course, you did that's obvious, but honestly back then not a soul was doingit. Not One person was being was serving that audience in the waythat we were so that was the that was the growth plan that didn't necessarily map to the bigger picture. So Iremember at that time you know we had a product that served a tiny portion of the addressable market. You know the podcast ing market was still reasonably big. Therewere new people entering it very, very quickly and very very readily, but alot of them had their own website. A lot of them didn't want a website. Alot of them used free plug INS. You know the addressant was tiny that thebit that we were serving was so small. So we we set out a three year planwhich was to split up the core pieces of captiviteand also introduce one of the piece which is the interaction, tech, a sorry,split up the copies of podcast web sites and turn them into specificbusinesses, so that what we could do Mennesota the beginning. You know thepodcast Hurst in is the thing. Everyone needs a podcast us every podcast, butnot everyone needs the word pressed part of it. So if we could do somethingthat opened up more the addressant, the other stuff would benefit as well,because we had a ready made ready, made fun on readmit pipe line. Hence thelaunch of captivate. That's what we did so that was a three year reposition inplan. You know we spent a hell of a lot of time being patient a lot of timedoing the things that you know we had to come up against people saying thisis the wrong strategy, and this is not how you should do it and we l just alot. This is our plan. We confident in it just give us two years, give usthree years and sure enough. Three years in the plan is fully formed andit's been delivered. So that was the growth strategy and we knew very early on with the websitebusiness that- and we still do this to this this day- that we can serve peoplereally well like we love that business and we love the people that we werewith like we genuinely enjoy doing that. But we knew that as long as it as longas it paid what we needed to pair, we...

...would know worse off than when we hadthe agency, so we were able to leave the agency step away from it, be no worse off, but suddenly have allthis time and all of this focus to build these other things. So we werereally patient and we chose specifically, yes, we'll grow the web business andwe'll keep it churning. But what we're not going to do is put forty hours aweek in to grow in it like we probably could have done, because we knew thebigger picture was over here. Yeah, so that's that's, it was a you know. When I look back at it. I'venever really talked about it like that, like when I look back at it. That was a it was a pretty goosy strategy becausehe could have gone completely wrong. I hearing it. Obviously I I you'regiving us a surface level touch on the strategy, but it does sound like you'rebreaking a fundamental rule where you don't normally try and sell threethings at once. You know you find the one thing, that's really popular andyou go all in and Maxim ize it as much as you can, and then we volunteer,maybe another thing spin, one off as a separate entity and so on, but I alsocan imagine especially coming from an agency model where in Web, inparticular with the web, a web agents. He is, I think, one of the worstbusiness models in some ways, because you do get called upon to do everythingyeah you can build my website. Can you set up my my podcast? Can you design,you know every element that goes into some kind of content, marking peace,the social media part of it? Maybe the podcast part of it they sort of look atit as a Jack of all trades and now, of course, the markets of fragmented andbecome specialized. So yeah you go to a podcast website, design service likeyou started for that specific part of Web design, and then obviously you needhosting. So it's something you would not necessarily expect to get from thesame company, but it's comfortable to get it from the same company. And then,if that works, you can separate them and is to entities. But what I'd liketo know, you know the three year block and even bringing us up to the currentworld where you have all these things running at the same time, how does it look like from a because what I struggle with evenmyself, because I'm an entrepreneur I want to have this company I do have youknow an email service is company. I have obviously my podcast. I have myblog. I have a coaching business behind all that and there's other things goingalong and it's every day it's wake up, and you know I want to kind of do themall, but I have to stick to maybe the one that's got to generate the moneythat pays the rent or it has a goal that I'm most excited about. Whateverthe case may be, how do you currently control and manage all this, and isthere a big team behind all these platforms? Like? Do you have a one fortheir captive ate now, because I know it was just you do at the start, onefor podcast website you've got. I mean I don't know howmuch rebel media rival base media is a business of itself still as well likewhat is the team look like and are you like you, the Co, telling everyone inthese teams to do different things throughout the day, what's e day inlife of Mark? Basically, at the moment, yeah good question wet I'll break thatdown into sort of the handling the not not doing too muchwhen it goes against all of the advice and then sort of get them on modernversion of the teams and so on, and a sort of great that so you're right completely. You know weshould be focusing on one thing and we do when we did so to give some insightinto this. The first ever product idea that I had in podcast ing in twothousand and fourteen is the product idea that we are only just pushing outinto our for, in fact, six years after we decided to do something with italmost to the day yesterday, we got a US patent granted for that verytechnology because of a lesson impatience in doingthe very thing that you'd said, which...

...is what's going to what do I need to doright now, so there is one sort of I suppose, unseen change that washappening in podcast ing which forced us to think a little differently. PODCAST ING around the time that wewere developing this three year plan suddenly decided that it wanted to be abig media business and we were already in it. So we had tovery specifically one move quickly to move in a very focused fashion andthree start to do the things that would lead to results six years later. So atthe beginning of that three for five year plan, I started firing the patentfor this product and I may be touch it once. Every month we got the patentturney sorted out. We knew when we wanted to hire someone when you whatthe Tet would look like. We built the API for it on a weekend and we packedit. We left it. We didn't touch it for two years and then we did and then thepattern got ranted. So we were able to skip over these things having an ionwhere the industry was sort of going to be in a little while we were veryfortunate because we were in podcast ing right at that point. We've been init for two or three years would seem where it had been. We saw the precipicewe saw where it was going and we were able to put those those foundationalpieces in and then come back to them later. Do you do you mind just mark,because I feel like you and I are both podcast and siders and when you saypodcast ing decided it wanted to be a media business. What does that mean? Ikind of feel like I know, you're talking about, because suddenlyeveryone had a podcast and Louis House was suddenly famous talking tocelebrities, and I was like Louis House is just a friend of mine for me that atmarketing, how is he suddenly talking to his on the Allan Show and all thesepodcast were exploding, but something else was happening too, because gibletmedia, I know big PODCAST G company was formed probably around the time, you'retalking as well and that's a different kind of podcast model. So what's yourinterpretation of that shift yeah. So when we said podcast in is media, youknow we think of podcast as this sort of industry, where independent peoplecan do whatever they want to do, but around o thousand an fourteen fifteen.Sixteen ish I mean six two thousand and sixteen is the east were to pinpoint it.You know with the launches cereal, where it became a media for the massive,so net flix had educated my mom on the father. She could get whatever shewanted visually whenever she wanted it Uba and it educated on the same thingfor travel and deliver ruin just eat a new Baris at educated, on the samething for restaurants. So suddenly this undemanded o that was harasses driven,you are to a fancy up on your phone was actually just net flix for radio andpeople started to get into it more, but they started creating Ip. They wouldbuild, shows intellectual property with an eye on selling them to move studiosand TV studios, and that's that you know this is an entirely differenttopic. We could get deep into that's the fracture beginning to happen in twothousand and sixteen w TWANA seventeen that was seen much more of now. Youknow to could wonder at Pineapple studios all these people MC Millan,producing these amazing things that are intended to be mass market,entertainment media, Not Louis House, interviewing Gary ve, you know that'sdifferent, you know! So it's that's the split that happened, but we were like.We were fortunate enough to be the podcast conferences when one year appleturned up. Why are you doing it and then suddenly, the year after spoteturned up, and then Amazon shored up and wondering her Nan and the team?What then o what it what's going on? This was just like fifty people lastyear, and so we were able to that's the precipice I'm talking about. It waseither going to drop or it was going to fly and it flew because people startcreating creating this mass media and does that Change Your Business in anyway at that time, yeah yeah it does so what that did for US yarrows it did.It did two specific things it made us focus on captivate much earlier and wegot you know we built that and it's a...

...great platform and it was built reallyreally well, and we just we build that. You know we just start right: ConsumerBest, podcast us. We need it because now my moms going to want a podcast,because I may it's told her that ere it's got a podcast. You know becauseeveryone's got them, so we needed a consumer horst. So we did we builtcaptive is brilliant. We love it, but this big podcast ing stuff thatoriginal idea this. This interaction, tech idea, like that's for the indieslike you and I, but I also have big implications and technically technicalimplementation opportunities for the bigger tech platforms, the biggerproduction companies, hence as file in the put yes explain what that is. Idon't know if you're allowed to talk about that or not no, I'm not going togo too into too much depth on it. But it's interaction. Tech, essentially,okay, that's very, but it has has implications for the in all right. Igot implications for the bigger companies which you know they can useit, so we kind of started those wheels in motion. That was what it did for ourbusiness. We knew, which kind of brings me to thebigger question about how we run it. We knew that the number one I couldn't run,everything that cure couldn't win everything. So what we did was you know those component pieces ofpodcast website the web platform, the Horst in platform, the educationplatform. We exploded, those out into three constituent pieces and registereda company for each one of them, so podcast website does the managementstuff for word, press. You know the academy rooms through rebel Bas media,which is a membership business and captivate runs, is its own business.Now. What we were very very focused on is what was very specifically launch captivite. Remember at thispoint: We have profile in the industry. We shout about it long enough and loudenough. People turn up when we launch and sure enough people bought captivatefrom da on and right the so so it works. It's not just on the strength to shoutand IT'S A it's a brilliant platform, and we were then able to take that money,because guess what we got podcast website we don't need to draw. We don'tneed to draw a salary from captive at this early stage. We can we keep livingon this stuff, we're able to hire in a support team and suddenly, you know,eighteen months, two years later, where we are now captivate as a team oftwelve people, arrange you developers in a multinational support team,arrange of designers, a marketing team and the same for podcast website s. A verysmall team of very focus word press individuals that do a great great jobproductivity, the Interaction Tech. Yes, what he's got a developer and did theyjust work on poducing? It was very carefully planned and you know wetalked about that focus. You know that whole do one thing until you've got itto the point where it's not necessarily exhausted a way from running. Well,that's what we did podcast website runs itself. CAPTIVITE doesn't run itself. Isteer it. I guide it, but everyone is really good at their job and that's whywe hired them. So I'm confident that you know a a a Ma, cove vaccine otherday. Of course, I've got symptoms and the business doesn't set on fire.Everything works really really well, and that was the model. That's how wedid it and that's what we still do. You know we start with doing this now, withthe Interaction Tep Productivity. You know, we've got the one one developerEd. He and I work on that and it's a repeatable model we're just in Alphawith that which is working really well about the Patten granted and it's youknow off. It goes so that it's been a proven repeatable model, but the keything to take away from that is that you are absolutely right, like youcan't do too much too soon. You've got to have confidence in, like we did with the interaction stuff.Do One thing that you need to do now to set it up for the future, hop it on ashelf and come back to it when you can dedicate some time to it. That's beenvital to what we've done interesting, so maybe we've kind of head to the lastfew questions here, a mark and we're...

...you know I feel, like we've connectedthe dots. I have a better feel for what you're in charge of it's almost likethree business units and you're, the the CEO of one of them but you're,obviously the founder of all three of them Co, founder podcast. It feels as it we record this.It's almost like a second kind of period of explosive growth, as theplatforms start to come out. Like you know, new new software tools, like erbersi apples, suddenly deciding that we're going to take this as seriouslyas Sportif is, and we let people monetize with pay subscriptions andthings like that. It's all just happening as we record this. It doesfeel like it's one of those moments in time where they'll be a big boom of lots of different toolsexploding and then it will start to consolidate, and he could imagine podcast host start to merge. You knowpodcast, recording tools start to get acquired and become under one company.I know you aren't necessarily sure about what direction all this is going.That, in terms of your own businesses, is the vision to possibly exit some ofthem sell them off. It sounds like I excited about this patent with aphysical tech. Your building, which is maybe I don't know that he tails itsound like it's physical and software, which is O that's. How was a uniquechallenge? What is like the vision for your own companies, if you're thatclear on it now, I know sometimes myself. I tend to build things as I goand adjust as I go as well, but you must be feeling okay, you know captivecould be the ten figure business here, because it is in a growing massivemarket place. It's a it's a SASS, it's the subscription. It's got all thosesweet things that people love to hear about. You couldn't even think abouttaking venture capital and going huge and all those kind of things that allcross your mind. The vental capital thing doesn't at all,remember the control thing you know. Yes, that would. I would struggle likeheck with that mat and honestly. I don't know if I want that, like I setmy businesses up when I was twenty three, you know I was a bullish twenty,the year old and but I always had an eye on being olderand been able to take my kids to school, and someone did all I want was justsomeone to not make me sit on a chair and I didn't want to sit on a chair andinstead be sat in a chair watching my kid play soccer or in a band practice.You know do all the things that you want to do as a family person and andthat's why I do what I do so venture capital and that sort of thing doesn'tinterest me, because that comes with inherent pressure. My job is to be theperson that looks after those closest to me. That's my job. You know thebusiness is something that I love doing and my users are the people that I lookafter the most in that realm. So I think yeah, you know, there's always aneye on d risking, you know, because captive or any other product that youbuild and you'll live. You know you've been in this position and will continueto because that's what we do. We keep building things. You know when you'vegot something. That's growing inherently you've got risk associatedwith it. You progress in your own life based on that particular product or thesuccess of that product, and that's where the risk comes in, so there'sprobably an element of de risking at some point. I think you're right, youknow kin. I spoke about this consolidation will happen. Inevitablyyou know it's already starting we've seen that and for me it's really aboutdoing the thing that I want to do. You know and really enjoying what I domaking sure I can provide for the family and give them a great life, givethe kids the opportunity that I never had and that you know we want them tobe able to have and let them make their own with, but d risk in some of thebusiness. So I think, whilst we don't know what that looks like you know,there is an opportunity for us potentially to think about that. Would we want to go public? Would wewant to vs in the future to get to that point? Probably not man, because that'sa lot of late nights for me and I'd rather know I'd rather be walking up by a kidthat needs me than thinking about what eventure capitalist thinks about mydecisions. You know yeah, okay. Well,...

...let's wrap it up with one one questionmark. I probably I didn't tell you this. Maybe now, if you don't know, but I'vekind of rebranded, this show I'm calling a bested capital going forward.I'd like to kind of tie in to that concept- and I know I'm alwaysinterested in this- it can be a very personal question, so you can take itas personal as you want to looking back on all the things you've done to makemoney to build your own capital and possibly what you're thinking about inthe future in terms of growing capital. Could you advise everyone listeningpurely and may be going to tie it into what's been the biggest source of yourcapital over the years like? What would you recommend to the audience to focuson if they are focused on growing a really serious to make a lot of money?I don't know no other way of putting it, but maybe also tied into you, know thethe mistakes or the directions that were not a right fit for growing moneylike it does sound like you, had an opportunity to make a lot of capital attwenty three running two hundred grand a year, but at the end of the day thatstill wasn't the right path for you. So take that question or multiplequestions, however, as you like, but you know what at your advice. Yes, I think there are three thingsthat I'd suggest: First and Formes, the old cliche, the old obvious one whichis you've, got to really enjoy what you're doing, because no matter howmuch money comes with it. You know you're, never going to look back ateighteen, ninety years old and think to yourself. Do you know what I'm glad Ihad all that money, but lost all that time with the kids or the family, youknow and by enjoying something you give people the opportunity to be around you,as you can be at your very, very best, because you'll never you'll have thebad days, but the bad news bad days are not there because you're doingsomething that you're here that there, because they're a by product of doingsomething that you're loving you. Just in my view, you become just the genuineversion of you that you can you can you can continue to be regardless of whatyou do. That's why people who set up multiple businesses keep doing itbecause they enjoy different things at different times in their life, so Ithink, really focus on that part of it. I know it's Cliche and it's very soft,but I do think that's sort of the best line. The second thing that I reallyfocus on is it's going to sound cliche to startwith, but it's tactical when you get to it, which is focused on people in the early days of a business. Allyou have his relationships, and you know all you can do is be very. Verygood to people be very, very honest, be very, very transparent and be very,very helpful now the way that you can tactically scale, that is by makingsure that when you do build something that what we talked about earlier withthe support side of things like that should be. The first thing that youfocus on is the experience, because it's easy to defend your platform. Ifsomeone comes in- and you know, we have it- we captivate someone's having a badday and they kick off. You know, and it's not anything to do with it- thisapple podcast, that's down on it. You know their microphones, not working,and that you know the one thing that the type that's in captivate becausetheir typed, it is captivite fault in it's not, but that's all right. It'snot our job to say were a second, that's on you. It's our job to put thearm round and said you know what actually we got you back. I've coveredyou on that one and by the way, let me know what else I can do. I'm reallyhere. If you like. Oh, we have all this stuff. We've got. These we've got thesethese all. These live things that we do where you can just come and be aroundother people like that is core and scaling. That support is vital. Thethird thing that I would focus on- and I would really suggest to people- is get good at either marketing or getgood at realizing, which bits of marketing you're not ever going to begood at and do that early, because, if you don't you'll go from zero to onebut you'll top out at one you're never...

...going to get any further. You knowyou'll never get to an eight figure business you'll hit out to low seven orwhat you know. Whatever your goals and your aspirations are those three things. I think of thingsthat I wish I'd been told when I was younger that I'm not even sure thecollege tutors could have taught me had. I stayed on, but I think, if you putthem at the center of everything that you do they'll serve you if you're atrades person if you're a digital entrepreneur, they'll serve you. If yougo get a job, you know, so I think they're absolutely vital. Is it safe tosay in terms of your own financial success, it's mostly being in thepodcast ing space like not as a podcast er, but as a support service to podcast,ERS yeah, absolutely yeah, podcast ingabsolutely has been my career for nearly ten years now my which is insanewhen I think about it, yeah. Well, it's a good field to be inyou've been riding away, which I feel is just getting bigger at the moment.So I hope it continues to rise and doesn't ever come down and become anothing of make me sad. I lit the PODCAST. Probably then I more than Iread books, that's for sure, and even maybe more than net Flix, which issaying a lot so wow. That is saying a lot yeah I mean Iprobably should track that because you know one binge watching session of aseries of Netlik can suddenly be eight hours. I wouldn't sit there, listen toeight hours straight of a podcast, you know or audio books, but still it'sdefinitely some. You know some serious time put into both audio and video mark.We've mentioned a lot of web sites. Obviously captive at dot. F M is thekind of like the main one. We've been missing back and forth any others. Youwant to send people to now or just you know you want to get them focus youwant to give them lots of option will give him one thing. This is one ofmy tutorials that I always give to podcast ers give them one call to act.Okay and that's always just he's always just social. Just get me on twitter.That's the place that I'm around the most and it's the place that we canactually have a chat, so I'm just at Mer ask with on twitter any time. Ithink that's how I asked you under this podcast through this episode on twitter,so yeah it works well, actually, yeah. Thank you mark. I appreciate the time.Good luck with all all the tools I'm looking forward to seeing this is newpainted did secret technology that you've got coming up soon, so that thatwill be fine. It's rare for digital entrepreneurs to get into physical, sothat's always exciting to see and and keep up the good work. I appreciateyour effort well, thank you so honestly, and thanksfor thanks for doing what you do and what you have done over the years aswell. You have been a genuine inspiration, so I think you mightreally appreciate it appreciate it thanks for listening to today's episodeof vested capital, if you have any friends or family members who mightalso benefit from hearing this episode or they're interested in startupsentrepreneurship, investing making money generating capital, those sortsof topics do send them to my podcast right now, I'm redingen all my domainnames around this show so the simplest way to send it to people or to find itif you're listening to it without subscribing, yet just go to it.Whatever your favorite tool of choice is for listening to podcast, whetherit's Google or apple or could be Amazon could be. Stitchercould be tuned in there's so many different players nowadays, whateverone you're using if you type in either my name Y, a R, O or vested capital,you should find my show where you can subscribe and download previousepisodes as well. Once again, my domain name sorted out for the show I'll alsohave the website address for you, but hey most of us, like myself, you're,probably using an APP. So that's the best way to find the show and alsoshare it with your friends. Just tell them to go. Look for Yaro inside theirfavorite PODCAST APP! Okay! That's IT for me! Look up for new shows comingsoon. I will talk to you on the next episode by Bye. t.

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