Vested Capital
Vested Capital

Episode 18 · 1 month ago

(EP18): Tim Ferriss Trilogy, The Origin Story, Optimizing Learning, The Original 4-Hour Workweek Interview

ABOUT THIS EPISODE

Tim Ferriss needs no introduction. 

Author, lifestyle design pioneer, angel investor (Wealthfront, Uber, Facebook, Twitter, Alibaba, Shopify, Duolingo), peak performance bio hacker, accelerated learning leader and of course, podcast host.

Tim first appeared on my original podcast all the way back in 2007 when few people knew his name and he was talking about his new book, the 4-Hour Workweek.

In 2012 he returned to my podcast to talk about how to accelerate your speed of mastering a skill, the main topic of his new book at the time, the 4-Hour Chef.

At the same time as we recorded that interview, I also asked Tim to record a secret interview just for my membership site members -- an interview where I asked Tim to explain what happened during the years BEFORE he wrote his first and most famous book.

Today I'm excited to release this special trilogy podcast featuring all three interviews, edited and re-released as one big Tim Ferriss flashback.

Tim is a superstar. So many entrepreneurs credit his book as a starting point for their entrepreneurial journey and millions more people listen to his podcasts.

These interviews I am publishing on this episode feature Tim during much earlier phases of his career, but of course Tim never disappoints, so there is timeless wisdom to be gained by listening in today.

 Enjoy the trilogy,

Yaro

Podcast: https://www.yaro.blog/pod/
Blog: https://www.yaro.blog/

Hello, this is Jaro and welcome tovested capital episode number eighteen featuring my guest Tim Ferris vestedcapital is a podcast about how people make money and put their capital towork. I interview startup founders Angel Investors, venture capitalists,Crypto and Stock Traders, real asite investors and leaders in technology. Today I have a real treat for you, soyou probably know Tim Ferris. As the author of the four hour work weekbefore our body, the four hour chef, a whole bunch of other books on peakperformance he's also the host of his own podcast, which has becomeabsolutely massive in the last sort of four or five years. He has huge guestson their mainstream celebrities, athletes stars experts he's known as abiohacker. He has done many experiments on himself to improve his ownperformance to maximize the speed of adoption of skills. You know, learningoptimization. Basically, his books have covered all these topics and many morehe's also a very successful angel investor. Maybe you don't know that,but he was one of the early investors in companies like Uber and spotify he'shad a TV show, there's so many things. I could tell you about Tim, which youprobably already know, which is why I'm excited to give you this special vestedcapital episode, which is really just one big long, Tim Ferris interview. Isay it's one big long one, because I've combined all three of the interviews.I've done with Tim Ferris, so a little bit of background. Just you understandwhere all of this is coming from, so go back all the way to the year twothousand and seven, I was brand new to blogging and podcasting I've been doingit for about two years. At that point it was very early days for both thosemediums, and this guy sends me an email. His name is Timothy Ferris. He sayshe's written a book called the four hour work week and he'd loved to sendme a copy and also it possible. We could talk about upon my podcast atsome point. You know if I was up for it now, I'm a little embarrassed to saythat I never actually got back to Tim and said Yes to that interview straightaway. I lumped that email in with a whole bunch of very similar emails. Iwas getting at the time from authors of books that were just published. It wasvery common, still is Raelly for a podcaster to get these requests when aperson is releasing a new book. Hey would you like a copy of the book, andwould you interview the author on your show? Now I was doing that, but becauseI was kind of getting overwhelmed with those, I would just say no to a lot ofthem, including Tim fast forward. A couple of weeks later and suddenly, I'mseeing this book called the four hour workweek, creating a huge craze. Allthese podcasts and blogs were talking about it. It seemed like it wascreating a much bigger impact than a lot of the other books that had sort ofbeen released recently on similar topics. Now you probably understand whythat is Tim Ferris wrote the four hour work. We released it in two thousandand seven and it really did make a splash. It talked about lifestyledesign. It made every day. People who are working nine to five jobs realizethat it's possible that they could have a much more designed lifestyle andhooting travel, exploring their hobbies and passions learning new skillswithout needing to be rich and without needing to wait for retirement. So Timreally flipped the script open their eyes to the potential of things likecreating a side, income stream, creating an online business whichallows you to travel. He called an amuse at the time, and so manyentrepreneurs over the years following will go back and say one of theirinitial inspirations for either quitting their job or becoming anentrepreneur for the first time was because of this book. The four hourwork week. So going back to my story in two thousand and seven, although Iinitially rejected to him, as I saw this book balloon and popularity in thenext couple of weeks, I did write back to him and said: Hey I'd, love a copyof the book. And yes, let's book you in for the show. Tim Of course was anunknown quantity at the time he hadn't done any of the things publicly by then.He had ready done a lot of cool things behind the scenes. You know hetravelled the world. He built his own supplements. Business he'd become likea tango world champion being in the mixed, martial arts movies, crazybehind the scene stuff. That really was the reason I believe before our work westood out not just for the idea present, but all the amazing things Tim hadlived through, which was kind of like the example, the proof of his concept.So I got Tim on. I read his book for me. The book wasn't I opening, because Iwas kind of in the same boat as him. I didn't want a job and I managed to makemy own income stream, but I was very fascinated by the things he done withhis travels and just how much this book was really going mainstream. I was tobe honest, a little bit jealous. I wish I had written the book and I had gottenit out there, but full credited him. He was the one who went out there and didit and he came on to the show being a little green to be absolutelyhonest.You know he was doing a lot of...

...interviews for that book, but I thinkit was possibly the first time he was really going mainstream with hispersonal brand. So he was talking a lot of podcast radio shows getting a lot ofblog into views now. I was also very green at the time I don't Eve, beendoing my podcast for maybe a year and a half very ad hawk. I haven't reallydone very many interviews, so I actually interviewed Tim and it's aninterview, I'm including today, as the third and final part of this episodeinvested capital. So I've got three interviews with Tim. The third one isthe very first interview between myself and Tim from two thousand and sevenabout the four hour work week. It is a little green, but I want to include itbecause it's a nice nostalgia, trip and Tim does still do a great job ofintroducing this idea of the fore out work. We can how it all came about, andyou know, talks about some of his travels and experiences and what it'slike to create a muse, a side, income stream and all that, so that isincluded in this episode from two thousand and seven now fast forward totwo thousand and twelve tim is releasing his third book. The four hourchef, which is all about learning, optimization, had a master's skills ina shorter period of time, which is something Tim had been practicing andhe's been doing it through cooking but also language learning, and he wasreleasing this new book to share those stories, he's very much a hacker, abiohacker, a human performance. So it was still experimenting on himself and,of course, when he releases a new book, he always tries to get on as manypodcasts and blogs as possible. So I came back to me to be one of manybloggers and many podcasters to write about this new book, which I of coursesaid Yes to, but I was a little bit cheeky. I also said to Tim and I'll behonest. There's no way this is work today is way too popular and busy, andyou know says not in those things but back then I could still get Tom to sayyes to certain things like this, I said I'd love to interview you about thefour hour chef and release it publicly on my podcast for the right timing tohelp you sell more books, which was his goal, but I said I also appreciate it.If you could do a second interview with me something behind the scenesspecifically for my members, I had a membership site back then I still do ithas a different name. Today it's called the laptop life to academy back then itwas called the J and sider doesn't really matter. It was just something Iwas very much focused on at the time, and I wanted to get something specialto my members, an interview with Tim Ferris, but not talking about his books.I want to learn about him before he became the famous author and, of course,to day the famous podcast, her, the famous angel investor of the famouspeak performance expert, just a famous famous person really and learn in moredetail how he was able to travel the world. What was his first success withbusiness, all those sorts of things, so I ended up doing two interviews withhim, one on the four hour chef and his formula for peak performance throughmastering the speed of learning so basically getting faster learning, newskills and then the second interview only for my members, which was abouthis prior history before he wrote the For our work week. You know what he didat university, what he did growing up and so on. So we did those twointerviews: One went public which is on feed for this podcast and one wasprivate only for my members. So, for the very first time today, in thisepisode of best the capital, I am releasing publicly that behind thescenes interview with Tim- and I think it's also probably the best one I'vedone with him because, frankly by then I was more comfortable interviewingpeople and it was a story styling to view wasn't specifically about one book.It was more about Tim's, early history, which was certainly my sweet spot. MyComfort on with my podcasting. So in summary, you are about to hear threeinterviews with Tim, fair, starting with his background story. The firstinterview I did that was not released publicly, so this is brand new. No onehas heard this besides. My members followed by my two thousand and twelvefour hour chef interview, all about how tim learn skills quickly and he teachesyou his techniques and systems for that and then finally, the original twothousand and seven for our work week, interview when Tim- and I were bothyoung and green to the world of podcasting and doing interviews andbeing interviewed- and we talked about his first ever book- that put him onthe map before hour. Work Week: okay, that is it. I hope you enjoy all threeof these interviews, I'm so excited to release them, especially the one that Ihaven't er these publicly before. As a result, this is a longer than averagepodcast well over an hour and a half. I think you'll love it, though there's alot of Tim Pars wisdom in this episode and Yeah, I'm just happy to share withyou this tri factor of Timothy Ferris interviews. Here we go nowadays him we hear about your success,which is building on your prize success which is building on your price success.So we don't really know much about your background. So thank you for taking thetime to hopefully dish all the mysteries about your sort of past my pleasure, many mysteries to followyes, so tim does have a bit of a dead line to met so we're going to try andget into the straight away. No, no Chi...

Chat Tim. I am curious. Where were youborn and raised? I was born at the very east end of Long Island, so up by Montaand grew up in a middle class family. Myparents were involved in real estate and physical therapy never made morethan fifty k year combined and grew up in a resort town effectively. I meanout by the Hamptons, so my first jobs were working in ice cream stands andrestaurants is bus boy and occasionally got upgraded to waiter if they wereshort on staff. But that really was the upbringing went to elementary schoolhigh school, at least the first half on low island and then transferred to NewHampshire to boarding school, which was actually my idea, because one of myfriends only one and been forced to go to Borin school by his parents andthought it was the best decision they had ever made for him and ended upbeing true for me as well. That took me to New Hampshire after that, after ayear in Japan also, which was very formative, ended up at Princeton andthen after Princeton ended up in Silicon Valley. Of course, there's alot that I'm jumping over a I am curious. Is there any entrepreneurendeavors in that period of your life? Oh Yeah, yeah, absolutely I mean Ibecame fascinated. I've always had in somnium as long as I can remember in aslong as my mom can remember, so I would stay up and I would see Tony Robins andrun popal and all of these infomercials, just by virtue of being up as lame as Iwas, and I became really fascinated by the art of the pitch so to speak andoffers deal structure and so on and so forth. So, even before I could actuallybuy products. I undenoted to my parents would sometimes call these phonenumbers just to see what questions they asked me and how they kind of led methrough that process and in college I really began to take it more seriously.My junior year, I decided to create my own information product, which wascalled in. This is a terrible title. How I beat the Ivy League. It was aguide to getting into top tier schools with sub par Sats, for instance. In mycase, I thought it would sell itself decided. I would sell the guidancecounselors through their news letters and what not and it sold a grand totalof two copies. I took all of my savings and put it into inventory before theminimal run that I could do, which was a few hundred pecat and so two copiesone to my mom and one to some unknown that I don't remember at this point intime and I actually only threw those tapes away a few years ago I was, I wasconvinced. You know some day I would be vindicated and the brilliance of thisproduct would and be shown to the world at large. But can we you threw themaway? They could be a collector's item on ebay Ye. I kept a few I kept a few,but listening to it number one. It was actually pretty terrible, but numbertwo is I decided on a product first and then tried to find people to sell it.To that was a big mistake. That's something that continues to be amistake that I attempt to fix not only for myself but for startups that I workwith, but flash forward a year, my senior year in school, I decided tofocus on low cost testing and also finding the market first and thendesigning the product. So I decided to create a three hour, acceleratedlearning course, with a focus on increasing reading speed and offered itto Princeton students for fifty oars. For a three hour seminar with, I thinkit was a two hundred percent money back guarantee. If you don't triple yourreading, speed something along those lines and didn't have any money. I wasworking for eight dollars an hour in a library at the time and then bouncingat night for additional income, and I sold the entire thing out. It was, Iguess, thirty two. I also got very good at phone sales as a result of spendingall this time, looking at infomercials and reading copy from cables. And whatnot? Can you time stamp this? We because you're in university in onethousand, nine hundred and ninety nine, two thousand, so one thousand ninehundred and ninety nine? Probably so, are you still selling cassettes? Idon't think so right that was that was over and done with. I had thrown in thetowel for the most part- and I was only focused on doing the seminar and it wasmore money than I'd ever seen in my life, and I had I just remember gettingon my bike after the event and writing immediately to the bank to deposit allthis money, which was fifteen hundred dollars or whatever, and I was justbunched up in my hands in my pockets as checks and and twenty dollar bills andI've never felt richer. In my entire life, I mean the even now like that daywas a real homeand. I was like okay, this stuff can work, it's not allbullshit, because I started to doubt all the get rich, quick stuff- and Istill think most of it is not terribly helpful. But it did show me that if youfocus on low cost testing, I mean that I had to beg a church to. Let me usetheir day care center on an off hours day to o teach using their space, andit was just the cost of my time and...

...obviously developing the course andthen putting up a couple flyers here and there at school that as long as youcontrol the downside, the upside is eventually pretty much guaranteed. Ifthat makes sense, if you can cap your downside, the upside, more or lesstakes care of itself as long as you're, a rational person who learns from yourmistakes and ideally from the mistakes of other people, so don't go andproduce hundreds of cassettes before you have a market, no go to. You knowunbounded or something like that, create a landing page and test toensure that people are willing to pay for what you are actually trying orthinking of trying to sell before you ever manufacture. Okay. So how have you,when you have this first success with the seminar and speed reading? I GuessI was twenty two along those lines, so you're, Basically University collegestudent and what were you studying? I was studying neuroscience and thenlinguistics, but specifically East Agian languages like a Japanese,Chinese and Korean. Why Cause I found interesting, I think, liberal arts. Thegoal of liberal lots is to create well rounded problem solvers, who arecurious. I don't think that the job of liberal arts education is to prepareyou for trade. That's why you would go to specific professional school. Istudy what interested me and, in the end it ended up with all this writingstuff. We won't jump to that, but kind of full circle, and now I can actuallyuse that stuff e ironically. But what were you thinking at the time in termsof what's my future going to be a career, big business? I mean you'retalking Silicon Valley as well, so you must be thinking startups yeah. Well, Ididn't know at that point. All of my classmates were competing forinvestment, banking or management consulting, and I didn't want to doeither of this thing. So I actually took a year off of schools senior yearand worked for various companies in different industries of different sizes.I decided that the size was potentially the most important to me, so I workedfor a political asylum research firm which helps people apply for politicalasylum in the US. That was a three person company, but I also worked forcompanies as large as bulets international, which was ten sand.People redesigning their Japanese and English curriculum and at the end of itall, I decided that I want to work for a company that was somewhere betweenten and fifty people. That led me to consider different startups, soultimately ended up deciding to move to Sulton valley, but it wasn't easy. Iactually I did my final paper in a class calledhigh tech. onprinsipled was Elle Une nty one on a company called TRUSSAnetworks, and it was a profile in company and at the end I very what Ithought: Tactfully asked them for a job or to at least give me a shot, and theysaid no and the CEO proceeded to say no thirty, two times I'm not kidding, Isave the emails until I finally said- and this is I was already graduated- Iwas at home now. My parents, like you, can get a job any day now feel free andI sent an email. I said you know I'm going to be in Santo Osee, which iswhere the company is located anyway. Next week it would be great to meet upjust to say thank you for your time and give you some competitive analysis thatdidn't make it into the paper which might be helpful for you guys and said.No sorry can't do it and then had a change of heart about an hour later,and he said all right. I can meet you from this, something like hundred andfifteen to hundred thirty on Tuesday, and the retreat of the matter was. Ididn't have a ticket so then I had to take my savings and buy a standbyticket fly to San Francisco. I mean state in San Francisco, but went SanJose and didn't have enough money for a hotel. So I stayed at a kickboxing gymand lived on the second floor on a bunk bed for the period of time that I wasthere and ultimately he made me wait around for a couple of hours and metwith other people in the company, and I said, okay you're, just not going tostop bothering me until I see this is that right and I said I suppose, that'sabout right and he said great you're in sales and so put me into outside sales. So my jobwas to sell a multi million dollar data stored systems to people like dreamworks or American Airlines or the FBI or National Geological Survey. Peoplelike this, so you became a wage slave. I became a wage slave, but there was abig commission component. So that's really when I started studyingnegotiation and sales again as a focus and but everything you can imagine. Imean spin selling getting past no secrets of power negotiating like younamed the book. I read it over time, developed an approach that that seemedto work pretty well and that included not making phone calls for the entireday, because I noticed that if you called during nine to five hours, youalmost always got secretaries and gay keepers and you'd fail nine times outof ten to get a decision maker on the phone. So I would actually come inearly and make phone calls from say seven to eight thirty, and then I woulddo other types of work like prospecting and research and then make phone callsagain after six P M and taking that...

...approach. It closed a lot more meetingsand, as a result, closed a lot more sales. Interesting. So did thiseventually turn into your own start up or something like your own business? Ordid you actually stay in employment for a while? I was employed for about ayear year and a half I'd have to go back andlook at the exact gates, but the company was as many text turnups at thetime, promising more than it could deliver and engineering was behind andeventually started, running out of money because they couldn't shipproduct, they could book revenue, but they couldn't receive revenue and theystarted firing divisions and I saw the painting on the wall also. I decidedthat I could run aspects of the business better than the peoplecurrently running it and started to fantasize about starting my own thing,and I asked a very simple question, which I still ask, which was: what do Ispend a disproportionate amount of my income on and the answer was sportsnutrition and I had a little bit of background in the Sciences in Undergradwhen I actually made different types of performance, enhancing supplements formyself. My bedroom look like a meth lab, which I don't recommend, but the upshot of it was. I realized thatnot only did I spend a ridiculous amount of money on sports supplementsin some cases you know two hundred and fifty four hundred dollars a month whenI was making a bass, salary of forty tsanda pre tax. My friends did the same,and many of them made even less than I did what we sit that we're trying to bean Olympian or Yawl. I was a competitive athlete for many many yearsand I was an all American and wrestling in high school, so it took athleticperformance very, very seriously, but there are literally millions of guyswho have that same purchasing behavior, and I decided, as I often do, that Iwould just make the product that I wanted and sell it to people who arelike me and made it surprisingly easy to target. I was like okay. Well, Itrain and kick boxing I train in this and I value reaction speed. So let mefind contract biochemists, whom I can payper hour or per document, to help me formulate a product that will improvereaction, speed and then let me mark it to specificallytrade publications for, let's say kick boxing or martial arts powerlifting,because it's a very clearly defined niche and therefore it is both easierto plan your media strategy or acquisition strategy. It's also cheaperbecause you're very precise, like saying everyone is your customers, theis the worst thing I could possibly hear as let's say, an adviser or apotential investor that leaks to me of wasting money, which is almost alwaysthe case. Okay, so you actually went as far as having some research done foryour product, which is quite dunting, I think for most people. They would justthink I rinbod or I'll appurts something hose sale, but you werethinking no, I'm going to put together a specific supplement that I want touse using some science to figure it out. Yep, that's right, and it turns outthat almost all a sports, nutrition or vitamin companies outsource nearlyevery function of their business. As a result, though, they're very secretiveabout who they use, even though, for instance, even in mountain bikes, Imean the top mountain bike. Brands are almost all made in the top two or threemanufacturing facilities, but I started calling people who were tangentiallyrelated to supplements. During my lunch breaks when I was still working as aweight slave- and I was like all right well, if no one who's actually runningsupplement companies is going to answer my questions. Let me do searches forvitamin supplement, contract, packaging, labeling, etc, and then I used the sameapproach calling be four hours and after hours and eventually got thepresident of a company called merica which does a lot of packaging on thephone, and he answered. I mean it's a big company and he answered the fundsat you know seven o'clock. Whenever I called- and I told them- I just saidyou don't Know Me- this is totally out of left field, I'm just starting out inthis. I want to use you for my business. I'm not a joker like here. Here is afew of the things that I've done and I just really need your help. I want tospend money, I don't know who to call, and he was great. You know I basicallypulled the you know at some point. I'm sure you called somebody like I'mcalling you so five minutes would really me in the world to me. If youhang up, I understand, but it would really really mean the world to me andyou end up spending more than an hour on the phone with me and made all theintroductions I needed to get this product put together. It was justfantastic and I was off to the races at that point, although I needed money todo the manufacturing run. So I basically brow beated and gilted all myfriends in the company into agreeing to pre order the project, so I could payfor my first manufacturing run. Okay. So what was this product and we'retalking about a pill? You pop or yeah? Yeah, it's a pill. So it's calledbody quick or cog, Damian and I was ended up being sold in about twelvecountries when it was at its height t...

...still sold today. Even though I soldthe company two thousand and nine, the product has more than a dozeningredients that affect primarily three mechanisms of action. One is increasingmicros circulation in the brain, so oxygen up, taking glucos metabolism.That would be the positing or of IMPOSITA vincamine or things like that.Then you have ingredients that are precursors to a setle Collin, which isa neuro transmitter used in utilized for muscular contraction, among otherthings. Thirdly, would be co factors that help in conversion of thesedifferent constituent pieces into sub strates combust, the body. So all ofthis means- and the mechanism which is primarily a cetacae focus, is actuallyrumored to be what a lot of the top Jamaican sprinters are using right nowfor one of their competitive advantages, but that was it pre workout reaction,speed based supplement right and yeah. That's perhaps a little bit above meand most people go and do for their first well, I wasn't your firstbusiness, but I guess your first sort of start up, but let me add one thing,because it isn't. It just seems like there would be no market because it'slike who athletes that are interested in fasttrack on speed, like baseball,hitters, tennis players et ce boxers and a lot of celebrity athletes startended up using it. But the finer, your niche, the more you will cap yourlosses like controlling that downside, because you will be very targeted inyour messaging and your marketing and your media, and I would just say thatyou can always expand your market later, but you should not start off broad andthen half the Nichoune later a holways a lot of money in time. I think whatI'm referring to is even just the manufacturing process of puttingtogether what I view as a somewhat complex product. I think perhaps at thetime for you, it didn't seem to complex because you had knowledge in that area,but you know, for a guy has been writing content. That was a veryscientific explanation you just gave for a product, so sure sure yeah I mean-and I did have background I mean I did have a little bit of background, butyou know putting together that product. It's not rocket surgery as they say,but it's definitely more complex than what I would do when I would recommendto someone. I mean physical products and physical fulfillment is a pain inthe ASS. It's really the biggest headache imaginable. So information iscertainly much more interesting to me these days. Now. I'm curious because Ithink everyone who's read the for our work. We knows that your supplementsbusiness was your initial muse, as you call it the initial income stream. Foryour travels, you everything you've done that everyone wanted to replicateyour your ability to hop on planes and have these short mini vacations, and itwas the business that you am assuming you systematized so became a fairlyautomated income stream to so I'm correct and all that right, Yep, that'strue. Can you tell us, then I would like to spend better time on how thisbusiness grew to the point where it allowed you to have l. have all thisfreedom yeah absolutely well. I started very targeted and focused on print innich magazines, which was effective and the messaging was very similar to thespeed riding I mean I offered a hundred and ten percent money back guaranteeguaranteed to see effects in the first sixty minutes of your first dose, whichwas true and then push to either a call center or on the web later on. When Igot a little smarter about it and decided to involve distributors becauseI hated fulfillment, I would go to someone like body bowling they'reamazing, I mean they're, so huge company people don't realize they dohundreds and millions dollars a revenant per year. I would come to themafter having negotiated, say a full page print ad from Twenty Sandars totwenty five hundred dollars and the two resources I used for that primarilywere secrets, parent negotiating by Dawson and getting past now sonegotiate that down. Then I would go to someone like a body, Bonom and I'd sayhey. I have a full page ad value at twenty and lars if you are willing toorder just half of that in wholesale and so spend ten and dollars productand preorder that I will put your phone number and you are out exclusively inthis printed and that way I was guaranteed not to lose money on thatadvertisement. Even though I might sacrifice some of the upside, I wasguaranteed not to lose money, and I just tried to scale that as quickly andas widely as possible, and I did that in the US at did that UK I did that andAustralia. I did it all over. The place is finding big companies to effectivelysponsor the advertising by buying product in advance in return for theirplacement in the advertising. This is very commonly done for retail, that'swhere I picked it up, where you'll see or even for inflamations. If you seeninety second spots for like Hydrae, what do you see? You see logos forright, aid, Walgreens, etc. It's the same exact process, interesting. So it's sort of like across promotion in exchange for bearing some of the costs, bearing all the guys.Oh Yeah Right. That sounds like even like a jump from just selling it toyour buddies at work. To go to my well...

...yeah. I mean I selling it to my buddiesat work, but I was simultaneously putting together a very simple websitethat then processed payments through authorized out that and what that Imean it as very primitive back in two thousand and one. But at that time I would get orders andI would print out the mailing labels and collect them all up at the end ofthe day and and take them to the post office and mail them off prior emailmyself and that got old, really fast, so eventually started hiring fulfilment,centers and look first, local fulfilment,centers, eventually in large fulfilment center in Tennessee, because the upsshipping was cheapest from the center of the country and also fastest in bothdirections, east and West. But a lot of that was, of course, the infrastructurethat I was building and many of these companies. I met just by going to aselect handful of industry trade shows, which I recommend everyone new. Beforethey start a companies we're thinking of starting a company in let's say thefood or beverage industry in some fashioncould be sport. Drink could be some type of canned good anything. Youshould go to the fancy food show and so forth, and so on and really see who theplayers are and you can find every contract supply or manufacture,packager fulfilment company you can imagine by going to one show, so youknow don't be penny wise and pound foolish, spend the fifty bucks or twohundred bucks necessary to go to one of these things and fly there. So you meetthese people in person. Okay. So how did this grow from something that youwere doing? I assume on the side at your job and then you I'm assuming quityour job and then you're. Imagine I did not quit the inside sales division wasfired, but as soon as they were fired, I knew that the outside division, whichI was part of, was next and at that point I really had not launched theproduct. I had not started selling it. At that point, I had only gathered pleaorders for my buddies to help pay for the first many favor on. So as soon asthat happened, I was on seventh pay for maybe two months or three months. I'veno idea and had my health insurance paid for through Cobra in the US, asour health cares masses. You know for something like six months and I waslike all right. Well, I need to start generating some real money in the nextthree to six months, where I'm I'm in trouble and that's when I started doingit full time, so it was. It was full time pretty much from the outset. So itsounds to me like the secret here. A lot of it was your very keen sellingnegotiating skills in terms of getting deals for marketing, and I no doubtgetting deals for shipping and fulfilment and so on. Can you take usthrough how it went from this start up to I'm assuming something that requiredvery little of your time so that you could set off to Japan or do all thethings you did do and it may be even take us to the point. You'd starttraveling or I don't know when he mini vacations began and I'm assuming theystarted soon. They started in mid two thousand and four so from two thousandto mid two thousand and four, there were no many vacations of any type,Minto thousand and four, my long term. Girlfriend of the time whom I hadassumed I was going to marry broke up with me, because I was working fromseven a m to nine P m. So I can't really blame her. I basically chasedthe time zones. I would wake up talk to people in Asia, then Australia and justwork. My Way, all the way to California that Hawaii and I was horrible, but atthat point I really realized that the income I was making- and I wasdoing extremely well- I mean I've been making forty base salary. Like Imentioned before, that I was pulling in more than forty km month. At that point,and I was totally miserable, I mean I was A. I was trapped in this machine ofmy own making, so I made the decision that I would go toLondon for four weeks to pull myself out of my routine and also to stophaving meetings and phone calls and what not and attempt to redesign thebusiness. So it could run without me and if I was not successful that Iwould shut the business down because clearly it wasn't working, I mean myquality of life was not improving along with my income. What I did it's reallyalmost embarrassing to admit how simple this was, but I sent an email to all ofmy contracted fulfilment. Centers Manufacturers et set are all thesethird parties and said to the managers my points of contact. I said I am nolonger your customer, my customers are your customer, I'm going to beextremely hard to reach. Therefore, if anything costs a hundred dollars orless to fix, just fix, it yourself make the customer happy and then log it inan eccelse and I'll review, those on a weekly basis or view the decisions, andit worked so well because, prior to that, I would get contacted foreverything that was outside of the norms. It's like. Oh, such and such anathlete needs bottles over nighted to Austria, for a ski ing competition.WHAT SHOULD WE CHARGE? What should we do and that was chewing up? You knowforty fifty hours a week and I'm not kidding it dropped the less than fivehours a week. Just with that one email...

...over the next week, two weeks, threeweeks and so on, I kept on upping the ante, so went to two hundred dollars.It's two hundred dollars. You less go ahead and fix it. Five hundred dollars,let's go ahead and fix it, and when I got to the end of four weeks, I'd beensuccessful at pulling myself out of. If you know ninety percent of all the dayto day business stuff- and it was at that point- I had also pretty muchperfected- the art of not doing advertising for direct acquisition ofcustomers. Although I was also using Google ad words, but I was usingcompanies like body bolling to handle all the fulfillment and all the ordertaking. So I would simply I was effectively only managing the adplacement and then the negotiation of how much inventory they would buy, andthen they would wire the funds and everyone was happy. That's when Iextended my trip and the four weeks turned into eighteen months, and thenhere we are so that was a bit of a crash course andhow to will not systematize your business to certainly take away a lotof the Labor and make the decision making go to someone else. Not were youa one person show still at that stage to yep one person show I was I was theone person show pretty much the entire time I mean I had virtual assistantswho would help with very specific projects, but I did not have anassistant that I would hopathekary. I had many different people who would doanalytics and website design and so forth for India, U Kreat wherever usingELANS and other services, but I did not have a company structure with multiplepeople that I did not have at this point in time. Did you starttraveling? A lot is just when you kicked in all your goals, to you know,win dancing, competitions and getting to Hong Kong films and all the thingsyou talk about in your books, yeah. That's when I got started, and I meanit was not easy, because all I had done was work up to that point for the lastfour or five years, and I remember the first week or two in the UK wherewithout work, I did not know how to fill my time. You know so I was in thisvague days wandering around London going from like first attraction toMuse and pateris attraction, trying to avoid the Internet cafes, and it took a while to resurrect theseinterests that I'd had in college and high school and to really regain thatcuriosity, but that rough reentry period was really obviously necessaryand definitely worth it. I mean I wouldn't be here without it, so I thinkthat anyone who's trying to completely redesign their business to supportlifestyle design should expect that there's there are going to be somegrowing pants all right. So where are we? Ah? This isyou said four or five years of doing this, so you must have been hittingyour mid ties by now: Mate late, Tis Yeah! That's right, lit twenty, so thatwas two thousand four two thousand five seven years ago, put us at twenty eightokay. So in Samri I don't want to review the entire process. But next you just travel like crazy right.So can you give us a summary of? I went to Japan and learned this and I went tohere and learn this over in it because I'm assuming the business startsrunning itself reasonably well and you're. Just indulging in theseexperiences yeah, I checked email. You know once a week just to get prettymuch to play, matchmaker with media bys and inventory purchases and then makingsure money was going to buy bank account. That was pretty much it I meanI did have one catastrophic emergency, which was in hindsight pretty it not funny. I mean tragic, but reallyawful. Here I was in Bratas and I checked my skype voice mill. I think itwas at the time and the president of my fulfilment company had had a heartattack and died. I was very heavy guy and they were shutting everything downin forty it hours a soyot hours to get all of your men tore out of ourwarehouses. We we're just going to leave it on the side, walk and I'm in the slowbuck republic, and I did sort that out, but it was abit of a bit of a hand Ach so first I was in London and I had no plansbecause I'd lived. My entire life in fifteen minute outlook, incrementsright and I wanted to be completely unstructured. So the way that Itraveled was following where the wind took me and if I found two or threepeople who said you need to go here, I would go there. So I went from Londonto Galway in Ireland, where I learned hurling, which is one of the mostamazing sports in the world. It's a fast field. Sport in the world, fromthere jumped back over to Europe traveled all throughout Europe andended up lending in Germany in Berlin, which I fell in love with, and I stayedthere for three months and studied m a meeting Max Martial Arts, German andalso looked at graffed electronic music, which was a blast. But Berlin is a lotof fun. After that, I went home very briefly for Christmas and very brieflyis important, because I was trying to get a tax exemption for spending thevast majority of my time overseas. I think it's three hundred and thirtydays in three hundred and sixty five day period or something like that talkto your accountants, but very short trip back to the US, and then I went toPanama and they spent a month in Panama and a couple of friends said you haveto go to Argentina. I plan on a four...

...week trip to Argentina and that endedup being nine months, because I was bitten by the Tango Bug and thenstarted training like a maniac. You know sixty eight hours a day and wentto the world championships and stead of world record and all this craziness.And then, after that I came back to the US. It was more traveling to him. Iknow there was more traveling so well, there was more traveling. I just didn'ttalk about all of the little countries in between, but yeah I mean I hit. Ihit a lot of places so question. How did you solve the fulfilments ue, withthe guy with Artach I had to scramble and have some of my outvoters also helpto find a replacement fulfill the center and then have all of he material ship to thatNufoulan Center. So that's how I resolved that I was a short yeah, butit wasn't. You know here's the thing that sounds like a huge disaster and insome ways it was. It was a stressful, but it didn't take more than twoafternoons to fects and to have the type of lifestyle that you really wantand to do the really big good things you have to let transient things likethat happen. If you want to predict all of those problems from happening, thatmeans you have to have your hands in every aspect of every Facito, yourbusiness, and that means you have no life. So I view it is very zero. Someit's one of the other, so getting comfortable with letting that kind oftemporarily painful stuff happened and accepting that that's just the priceyou pay for being a thirty thousand foot view. Strategic thinker is veryimportant. Now you have actually sold this business. So can you take usthrough that decision, making process and an? When? Did that happen? Thathappened two thousand and nine I sold than two thousand and nine, and it wasactually funny enough. It was bought by one of the guys in a group of ininvestors. I met while I was traveling and they couldn't be s me because when Itold them this thing is a cash got, and it takes no time to run they'd. Seen mewhen we would, we would go to Internet cafes together and work, and I be likeokay guys, I'm done I'll like see outside they'd seen it first hand, so Iended up selling that in two thousand and nine and you have to get good atdeal making for any of this stuff to work. You have to get good atnegotiating and creatively structuring deals, so both sides winds, forinstance, the company sale almost didn't happen because at the time tosay financial collapse, the British pound at one point ended up tanking andthe entire transaction is being funded in British pounds, because theseinvestors were overseas. All of a sudden. The deal was something likethirty percent more expensive to them. They're like sorry, we can't do thisand what I did is ended up doing something along the lines of havingthem pay, fifty percent of the price and then having something like a sixmonth promise- or I note that they could pay back at ex point in time, butif the strike price, meaning that the currency rate between the- U S dollarand the pound- recovered that it would automatically trigger repayment withinfourteen days or something like that or payment within fourteen days. For thatfinal, fifty percent- and that was that they agree to it. The deal happen. Dothat deal set you up financially for the rest of your life sort of thing,because I know you still, you start doing the for our work week and becamean author and let a life that most people know about. You became a muchmore public figure, so yeah it gave me. I mean I I've never been a big spender,so I saved a lot of my cash. It gave me a good chunk of change, but not enoughto live on for the rest of my life, but plenty to keep me afloat for many years,and one other thing I should point out is that I actually gave them a greatdeal on the company and here's. Why? Because, typically, when you sell acompany they're all sorts of reps and warrantees representations andwarranties and guarantees of all sorts of types, so that you're a consultant,let's say to the company for one or two years- maybe there's an earn out ifyou're in Star nups for equity and they're all of these patches, in other words, in the fineprint where you have to still be involved with the company for anextended period of time- and I didn't want that so as part of the negotiation,you know those were all in there and I said, look unfortunately, I got to knowthese guys over time, so it was also a very personal deal. When I said look,I'm going to give you a great deal, because I don't want to deal with theseraps mortis. You know from having a lot of wine with me that I do not wantanything more to do with this business. It's boring to me, I'm done with it, soI will give you twenty percent off. If you get rid of these Repsol Tis you'vealready seen, other company runs you've, seen all the internal documents andeverything else, and this is good for you. You know it's going to work and italso allows me to walk away and sort of wash my hands to this and they agreed,and that was that all right tim in the last or of five minutes before you haveto run off- and we just sort of in a in summary for the people listening whothey haven't had their home run, start up yet or only not on start up theirhome on lifestyle business that they're looking to get the cash for source. Thenews in your experience, especially looking back over that time frame, werethere any major things you did write or...

...things. You did wrong that you wouldlike to reference to people now for them doing this journey. You know atthe starting phase for them yeah. I would recommend a couple of resourcesthat really helped me to so. The twenty two immutable laws of marketing get theold version, not the Internet version, but the twenty two immutable laws.Marketing by like recent trout is outstanding secrets pare negotiating byDawson, if you can at the audio, is also incredibly good and what firstwill teach you among other things, is number one you find the market and thendesign the product. This is very important, not the other way aroundtesting expensively and then it's easier to create a category than todominate an existing category. So body quick, for instance, was aimed a roleaccelerators, free workout, neural accelerated. That is a category that I created, at least asfar as I know, and it made it very easy to differentiate the product and to beslaughtered into a different place in people's minds so that you weren'tbeing price compared the other things that I would recommend are really inthe details, but from the very outset, there's actually another book. That'squite good called built to sell by John Warlow, and that is thinking aboutselling your company from the very beginning and designing your company.That way, and even if you don't sell it, it's the right way to build a company,because it requires you to put in systems that replace you, because, ifyou're required to run your business generally speaking, people don't wantto buy your business beause. I Mans that if you quit or get sick orwhatever the company fails so built to solves another recommendation, but Iwould say be different: not just better focus on market first, finding yourmarket, ideally one you belong to and then designing a product accordingly.And what really saved me as well- and this is why I recommend to most peoplethat they focus on higher margin products. Is, you know, eight to ten xmargin? In other words, if it cost you one dollar to produce, you should beselling it for eight to ten dollars, because ten dollars to produce eightyor hundred dollars or or even more- and you it's extremely important. I thinkto take that approach, because you will make mistakes in the beginning. Youwill buy media that doesn't work, you will try partnerships to fail, and thatis your safety net. That margin- those be a few things that I think I tookfrom that experience in broads in broad sweeps. Also, the most importantmarketing piece you may ever read is one thousand true fans by Kevin Kelly,again talking about being very specific with your targeting, which makes yousmarter, faster, more agile and makes everything less expensive. It's freeonline, one thousand true fans by Kevin Kelly. Yes, I've been recommending thatone too, as well as Jeff Golden tribes, to sort of go it with it as a companionpiece. So Great Tim now, most of what you said was very much physical productorientated and I'm assuming you have no problems recommending that still today,I know you consult for a lot of silicon valley, more software as a service tilestartups correct nowadays. Yes, I do so. Do you have a business model? You thinkthe best for right now? No, I really don't because I think it's a verypersonal question. It's kind of like asking which sport do you think people would be most successful in andI'm like. Well, you know if you're really tall go to basketball to reallyreally short and really strong. Maybe she tread power lifting I do think it'sextremely personal, but I always wanted subscription models, but I'vepersonally shied away from it, because I'm extremely lazy when it comes tomanaging different communities and constantly producing content, believeit or not, really lazy. I've tried it before. Iactually tried a paid forum like ten a month very cheap, tried that maybe ayear and a half ago two years ago and it worked, but it was such a headacheto me that I cancelled the whole thing and refunded everyone. I remember casesnew Tom Around for our work week in the really really successful period of time.Just after were saying why arn't you doing the course behind this, because Ithought wow. Is this not the best time to be launching something like acontinuity program or one thousand L training products? Something like that,because you could really off the the massive exposure you had had a hugeselling program. You said: No, I won't do training in this area. I don't wantto teach them to content production, so I was surprised a yeah and you know Iuse set. I had a conversation with seth going one so we're talking aboutspeaking engagements because I had over committed to speaking and I ended uphating it because I was doing it all the time and talking about the samecrap over and over again and just like dooly talk about enow outer spotters somany times, and I asked him about his rules for choosing gigs and basicallywhat he said was you know you're either on the road all the time or you pickand choose. You are speaking gigs and you do a handful and what he said to mewas and for whatever reason this really struck. Acord of me, you can only eatso many eminem's and meaning just like with money like once. You've had enoughmoney and you have enough money to really enjoy yourself like you. Don'tneed too do miserable stuff to make...

...more money, and it's very easy toforget that, and I still I still have to remind myself of this, because it'sseductive to make a lot of money really is. But when I look at the life that Ibuilt for myself, like it's kind of my lifestyle, it's my game to lose and Ithink a lot of people if you're fortunate enough to find success. Ithink you can engineer it financial success. You will have to take theworkaholic behaviors that perhaps made you successful in the very beginningand change them very dramatically or you'll continue to try to make yourselfmiserable. So just remember you can only eat so many Amenem. That's thefirst of the three interviews. I have you today with Tim Ferris, the next oneis coming up. That was my interview with Tim when he released the four hourchef, but first I'd like to tell you about in box dono the sponsor forvested capital, which is my company, I'm the CO founder of this businesswith Michael under Claire. We created in box done to help people who aredrowning in email and customer support and using their in box like a to dolist that keeps grabbing your attention so you're, just not having enough timeto get stuff done to move your business forward. Now I think Tim Ferris is aperfect example to why a service like in box done is so helpful. He waspossibly the first person to truly make the idea of delegation somethingeveryone on the planet could possibly do. We could all benefit from having avirtual assistant to hand over certain tasks and certainly for us, businessowners, US entrepreneurs having a person or a team of people to do thingsfor us is one of the most important steps you can take in order to growyour business. You can't grow a big business without help and for a lot ofpeople. Email is the sticking point, and maybe your calendar as well twothings that a in box done. We help you do so. We will assign to you two in boxmanagers who will work in tandem to manage and reply to your email and alsomanage your calendar and any other admin or customer service related tasksaround email and messaging. You might have we assign you to because we wantto offer redundancy, which means if someone has a holiday or I needs to goon sick leave. We don't come back to and tell you that you're back in chargeof your email for a month, while we find a replacement or we wait for themto get back from holiday. We have two people ouas there so or you've got thatdouble extra protection of people managing your in box, because trust meonce you've delegated your email and your calendar to someone else, you'renot going to want to take that task. Back. It's like flying! First Class.You don't want to go back to coach. So if you would like the benefit of aninbox manager to, of course, as we assign to most people, then all youhave to do is head to Inbox oncome. You can learn about the service there andthen book in a call which will be done most likely with me and we'll talkabout what kind of emails you need to help with. What's the ideal situation,are you looking to no longer ever going into your inbox? How do we communicatewith you? What does it look like to hand over something like email? What'sthe process we go through, it's quite a lengthy, detailed, careful process. Wetake you through to take over your email. It's not a quick process. Youknow it's going to take a month or more to fully take over these importanttasks from you. But that's why we're specialist we've been doing this nowfor four years for all kinds of clients were very good at handling email, which,frankly, is not something a lot of generalist. Virtual assistance are goodat doing so. If you want specialists and also you get what you pay for, yougot to really get the superior communicators. If you want them tomanage email and that's what we provide so head to in box done, com and I'dlove to talk to you more on a discovery, call okay, that's it from our sponsor.Now we're going to dive into interview number to with Tim Ferris, all aboutthe four our chef and optimizing, your ability to learn new skills. Here we go, and today I have probably one of themost fun guest you could have on an interview, Mr Timothy Ferris Tim. Thankyou for joining me, Oh well, thank you for the very kind introduction ofeither I say fun, because everything about your life seems to be fun to him.So I don't know how you squeeze it all in which is really what we here to talkabout. Obviously people will know you already, I'm sure, there's not a singleperson. Listening to this, who hasn't heard of at least the four hour workweek, that's something I've talked about many times before my blog for ourbody, your sequel. To that and now the latest book is the four hour chef. Sothat's what we hate to talk about, among other things, and I've done aquick little background check, because I don't know much about the four I waschef. Besides the obvious title, it's got to have something do with cooking,but I can see. There's two aspects of this: you've got the cooking and you'vegot the. I guess: Protivin lifestyle design. How you learn to do things wellquickly. Is that correct y yeah, it's a...

...cookbook for any skill. Disguise is acook book for food. That's the short version, because my readers have beenasking me for a book on on rapid learning for for five years now, and Ithought the most entertaining way to do. That would be to take a skill thatinvolves all the senses, which is unusual cooking, to take a skill thathad kicked my ass several times, which a lot of people aren't aware of. Thereare skills that defeat me cooking. Is it and then to from start to finishtravel around the world meeting the world's best chefs and fastest learnersand take all their tips and tricks and put it in one place? Now Tim, I'mamazed by you amount of things you actually get done in your life. Thusfar. I was just listening to an interview with you and I don't know ifI should say this publicly, but you did mention it publicly on the interviewthat you used to be a breakdancer before you went to tango and that'sobviously how people probably know about the Tango Park, because youtalked about in your books but breakdancing, not to mention SiliconValley, investor, obviously traveling around the world to to view and studyunder chefs to then write a book which is you know a full time when they'retaking in itself is writing a book. So how do you make all this happen? Do younot sleep? No, I actually sleep a lot. I lovesleeping. I really love sleeping a lot, so I try to get eight to ten hours. Anight doesn't always happen, but I think that the way I create theperception of getting a lot done, I mean, if you looked at me on a day today basis, you'd be like wow. This guy wastes a lot of time. I don't want tohear that fascinating a lot now, but here's a secret, the secret is that Ifocus on being as effective as possible, as opposed to being as efficient aspossible, or at least I focus on choosing the right things to do. Firstand then I can be kind of not mediocre my execution, but if I procrastinate alittle bit like everybody else as long as I choose the right things, then Ican get some some pretty tremendous domino effects, and so what I mean thatis, if I'm looking at, let's say a hypothetical to do list I'll reallytake time to try to identify the one thing that if accomplished, wouldaffect everything else or the one thing that if accomplished, would render theother things I'm avoiding null an void and eliminate them to find those fourmultipliers. And there aren't many. So it's like one thing, every three monthsor whatever it might be that if done really just magnifies everything elselike an archimedes lever, I think I'm good at habitually just taking the timeto do that and it allows me to get away with murder. Can you explain with an example? What'sthe most recent one thing that you did? Was it today or this week or yeah yeah?So I'll give you an example. I mean in the case of let's say, launching a book.We have the four hour chef, I'm prouder of this book than of any book. I'vewritten and I am proud of the other books, but this one I feel, is likesort of the bed rock that allowed me to do all the other stuff, so I'm also being boycotted by Barnesand noble, though six hundred plus stores in the US, the biggest reteller,and because I'm the first major book coming out of Amazon Publishing andbeing boycotted. So that means I need to move. Let's say in my week, which isthe week of Thanksgiving Super Busy: A hundred thousand bucks, probably to hitnumber one book scan, which then translate a number on Wall StreetChannel New York Times is fickle, so I might not even hit the New York Timesregardless of how many copies I sell because of the retail book up. So Ineed to look at the critical few things that will allow me to multiply that I'mversales, so one of those which I'll be doing is a competition where I can turnmy most devout readers and most capable readers into resellers of the bookwhere they can sell. Let's say three book packages: Thirty Book PackagesHundred Book packages et ce and then be placed on a leader board where I canselect the most effective and have them you know, fly them from anywhere in theworld to San Francisco. For Two fold days of me or something who knows, Ihaven't figured out all the details, but I know that if I execute thatcampaign effectively, it should have the potential to move. You know betweenten and thirty thousand bucks. That's a moving the needle type of endeavorright. So if I have then another another thousand things that I could doto promote the book and let's face it like there are a thousand things youcould do to promote a book and there are at least a hundred of them that arepretty attractive, but I will sort of rank them in order next to that onecritical campaign that one critical initiative, which is this group selling,so that would be that would be a good example. Okay, tell us a little bitmore about the book, so I don't want to forget about this part too, becauseobviously your first book be for our work week was was sort of lifestyledesign. He kind of introduced you to the world at large in a lot of waysthat that's where I first heard about you and from that point we kind oflearned that you were great at multitasking over. That's not the way Idescribe it, but you picked up a lot of...

...skills quickly. You had a business thatwas very low, labor intensive to make it work, or you know, set up differentincome streams that were like that and you taught people how to do this. Soit's sort of an outsourcing lifestyle, design, mini vacations travel.Ultimately, a four hour workweek book really big hit Hitia on the head and Ithink, for a lot of people open their eyes to what is possible, certainly nothaving a job is a real possibility. Thanks to the way we live our lives ofthe moment with the Internet, then the for our body was, I guess, hacking yourbody as as your title described, and I mean I read that book and I'm stillamazed again how you managed to do so. Many different little experiments onyourself. It's a little bit twisted to be honest, some of the stuff you did,but everything and everything from losing weight to gaining weight totraveling down to Third World countries to get medical procedure because it wascheaper there. Things like that, so it was a nice extension. I guess of thefirst ideas introduced in the for our work week before our chef. What's thebig picture goal here, what are we trying to teach people yeah? The bigpicture. Coal is to teach people how to really double or triple at least theirlearning speed with any skill so rather than let's say, tackling a language and it taking alifetime to master, which is a common myth or believing that adults learn.Language is slower than children, which is completely untrue, which you canprove with research. You can become functionally flu in the language ineight to twelve weeks, and so I'd like to teach people how to do that and howto do the same with just about any skill. I've systematically taken thissort of the grand recipe of all this metal learning process and applied itto like tango, breakdancing basketball swimming. I mean I couldn't even swimuntil a few years ago, and now I do it to relax and the way that I sort oftried to collect these methods and tips and tricks was by looking at peoplelike Davinci, like Benjamin Franklin jobs, Nikolai Tesla, who are reallypolly mats like how do they do that, and I made a study of it. So it's toteach people how to learn like the world's fastest learners. Basically-and Benjamin Franklin in particular- is really interesting, because his trinitywas healthy, wealthy and wise, and there are only kind of three mainobsessions that I have that. I think I've really done a deep dive on and sohealthy for our body wealthy for our work week and then wise is the fourhour chef. It's the book on maximizing learning, potential and human potential.So that's pretty much it and I'm using the vehicle of cooking a lot like Zenin the art of motorcycle maintenance uses motorcycles to explain you then,and what not reminds me of of that tennis book in is Tim Galloway as asimilar concept. But I was lost me. The metal learning that you're talkingabout here can you explain a bit more about that yeah yeah for sure. So Imean over the last fifteen years, starting in college, where I did a lotof experimentation. It smart drugs or different types like Vasitri ordecimate, presents and synthetic version and was in neuroscience labsand what not? From the very beginning, I mean I've been obsessed with how toaccelerate learning and metal learning is just a step by step process that youcan impose on any skill to make it easier to learn, and the generalacronym is Dis to remember so, dis S, s their three ses and it's deconstruction,which is figuring out the Lego blocks of a given skill, breaking it down intodifferent pieces, and that could apply to anything I mean poker, basketballdoesn't matter. Second step is selection, doing in t twenty analysisto pick the twenty percent of those Lego blocks that produce eighty percentof the results you want, then sequencing so putting them in the rightorder, which is really important. So it's like you know, a lot of people whoplay golf think they have bad form were in fact, they're just moving pieces,the portions of their body and their incorrect order. Just what stand up lya Great Golf Coast Talks about a lot and then the last ass is stakes. So howdo you fail your proof, Behavioral Changer? How do you feel your proofpractice so that you create the carrot and the stick so that there's aconsequence in a sort of building in an insurance policy that you actually do?What you're supposed to do, whether it's vocabulary cards or going out andlifting rights or whatever? Then there are other parts sort of in the advancedlevel of the metal learning, where you're looking really closely atfrequency, cramming how to cram like six months of coolinary school in aforty in hours, which is something I actually did with the help of a coupleof chefs, and it was super super intense, but teaches a lot ofinteresting principles when you try something like that or in coding, whereyou take really slippery Matura, like Japanese characters or memorizing adeck of cards and sixty seconds or less which one world champion and memorytaught me I to do. They had to take material really hard to grasp and turnit into something, that's easier to grasp and that's the general process,and it took me a long time to figure this out, because if you look at let'ssay me: Learning Languages, he failed in Spanish for multiple years anddecided that I was bad at languages until stumbled upon a few things inJapan. When I was there as an exchange stuent and I learned Japanese in a year,we sing comic books and judo textbooks.

So I learned Japanese to read rightspeak in a year, then I refined it learn Manderin in six months we find itwere find it tweaked it and refined it German in three months and then Spanishin about eight weeks, so I've just been refining this process or of the lastuni decade or so, and you finally feel confident enough in it that it can goin a book. So that's why it's taken to a freaking law. Well, it's es exciting proposition tohim. I'm looking forward to reading I'd love to grab four or five languages inthe next four or five months, so maybe not first, a tent for me willbe that quick. But I only speak this Canadian astrain language. So now is there an example right now thatyou could tell us that you're personally learning and I'm kind ofhoping- because I just saw you- update facebook- that you booked a privatetennis lesson. I was a big tennis fan that maybe tennis is on the cards here,for what you're, currently learning how to improve him is that Taine tennis isone I'd really like to get better at, because I'm kind of a cave man.Whenever I tried tennis, I just hit it like a baseball and doesn't work verywell. So tennis is one I'm absolutely I'm going to dabble with it. Try it outsee if I thee, if I enjoy, keep constructing tennis and if I do I'll,definitely stick with it surfing and into an Asian, Actually Bahasa,Indonesia and surfing and very interested in, because I couldpotentially do both at the same time. If I go to Indonesia, so those are twoon the horizon for me for sure, and what I would emphasize is that whenpeople see my bio, they think that I've had this. You know incredible lifestart to finish a massing, all these incredible skills, and it's just notreally true, like eighty percent of it in the last few years, and it's becauseI've just I've settled on this process for acquiring all this stuff and whenpeople finished for our ship. What I want them to believe wholeheartedly isthat, rather than becoming world class and one or two things for lifetime,they could become world class, like top five percent in the world and one ortwo things per year. I really want people to believe that and to go afterthese things, they've assumed they could never be good at, and you knowwhether it's playing the guitar or who the Hell knows anything anyway. Yeah. Iget super passionate to about this. I like that goal. I think that's I'm trying to think of the personlistening to this, who might still be at the phase where they're working anine to five job and they raising a couple of kids and looking after aspouse or maintaining a relationship and just finding thirty minutes in aday to read your book is the first challenge. This for them, which seemsquite distant from the idea of mastering one or two skills a year. Iguess I want to know the answer to two questions to him like to answer thequestion for the person I just described. Is there a process you wouldsuggest to go through it? Maybe even read your books in order is the way todo this. You know sort out the money sort of the body and then sort out thewisdom for that person. Listening to us, and I must so curious to know what anaverage day in your life actually is now when you get up and what you havefor breakfast and what do you get on the phone and talk about Silicon Valleydeals you're doing and while you hopping on a plane to go, learn surfingand body where you can learn the language as well like how does a day inthe life of Tim Ferris Go. Oh Man. Well let me answer those in order, so Ithink that, for somebody only has thirty minutes a day, the good news is,I always recommend, no matter how ambitious someone is. Is that theystart with the smallest possible change that creates a big impact that they'llactually do so for fat loss, for instance, thirty grams of proteinwithin thirty minutes of waking up just have a shake. You have a hundred poundsto lose. Do not start with going to the gym, and I took my dad from you know:Five pounds of average fat loss to eighteen point: seven, five pounds infour weeks of just adding thirty grams in the morning. No no exercise, don'tworry about changing your meals, just the protein, so starting small is whereyou want to go in terms of the books and reading them in order. I think theorder I wrote them is probably a good order to read them in, but you couldeven read the four hour stuff first, because the good news is the underlyingthread is eight twenty analysis and finding the twenty percent ofactivities or people who produce eighty percent of what you want in life, theoutcomes you want, whether in business or elsewhere, that's the same in allthree books. So I feel like the principles that you can applyeverywhere. are reflected in each of the three books, that's the goodnesskind of the same tool kit for all three. As far as my average day goes man, Idon't really have an average day. I do have certain routines, though I meanlike this past weekend. I was in Los Angeles, taking a sniper course withsnipers from the La Swat team. Why? Why? To? Because I was just interested in itand I met a navy seal who introduced me to the head instructor and he's likeyeah I'll go with you and like coach you through it. I was like well notevery day that you get that kind of...

...offer so yeah, it's not very much fun.Bring guns to the airport. I'll tell you that much shipping guns around youTSA does not like that very much, but, for instance like this week. Well, thisweek is a very typical because it's sort of launch time, but thirty gamespre within thirty minutes of waking up a mix of way, portin isolate and mycellar cascine wake up. I have puer tea, so I put on the water put on the kettleand I have Chinese prar tea, which has some really interesting, help benefitsfat loss, benefits and also light ship. Like a Christmas tree, which is useful-and I say a few days a week, I do three to five minutes of the positameditation seated but leaning back against a wall. So it's verycomfortable and I listen to one track, one music track and I use that as mystate Q, so I'll just listen to one track, super short, three to fiveminutes focusing on breathing, that's it and then, for this week I tend tobatch tasks on a daily or weekly basis. So, rather than trying to do like phonecalls for half of the day emails for a quarter of the day and then a quarterof the day doing abcde, I really try to do today. All Day phone calls. That'sit. It's been all day, fine calls and then other days. For Instance Fridays.I try to reserve for all of my impersona meetings, like catching upwith people lunches drinks at the hour of breakfast. Whatever I try to do allmy impersona stuff on the same day and I find the cognitive cost of testswitching is really minimized that way, and you can just be in the zone for alonger period of time, because your brain gets in the flow of doing onetype of thing and then typically at night, I like one or two glasses of redwine, as my habit all wind down, and then I like to either watch like acomedy or read fiction before I go to bed to turn me off of problem solvingmode, I like to get out of problem flowing mood and sort of transportedoutside of my head for for the last thirty to sixtyminutes of the day and then pop in a mouth piece. So I don't grand my teeth,put on my eye mask and go to bed and wake up and see what the next daybrings exactly right. So I've always been curious to him about somethingthat I'm sure you can explain a lot about. Have you always been a writer? No no way is there more of the questionis that there is I'm. When did you start? Okay? So I never thought I was going tobe a writer. I did take writing courses here and there partially becausethey're required, but never thought I was going to be a writer. I did takeone class that very greatly influenced me, however, which was called theliterature effect in college and as taught by John Mc fee, his staff writerfor the New Yorker and is one of the pells or prized so he's as good as hegets and his course was really really eye opening to me for a few reasons.The first was that I remember when we got our first writing assignments backthen he said, don't be concerned, you're all good writers, and how is Iwas just wondering as he handed them on like. What's this primal about, andthen I got my my writing back and his red marks there's more reading than theoriginal black in guy put down and he tore at the pieces, and therewere all these superfluous adjectives and ridiculous adverbs and likesentences that were flowery but at the end didn't had any value and what wasreally fascinating about. That was that, as my writing, improved, as my writingbecame clearer and Crisper, my thinking improves, and so my class, my gradesand all of my other classes went up and how was he? You was T I when this washappening. This was senior year in college, so I have no idea earlytwenties. I guess something like that, and then I had to write my seniorthesis learned to hate writing yet again and promised after graduatingthat I would never write anything longer than a short email for the restof my life. We really that did not work out asplanned, but the only reason I ended up writing the four hour work week wasbecause I enjoyed teaching and I was invited back to Princeton to teach ahigh tech out O preneur ship lecture twice a year just one day each time andI had feedback forms, I always wanted to feedback. You know that's my thingright tracking feedback and one of the students in the comment section of thefeedback form in pretty typical Princeton snarky fashion said. I don'tknow why you're teaching a class of fifty students. Why don't you justwrite a book and be done with it, and so I got this stupid idea in myhead. You know: Is this seed planted like what if I were to write a booklike? I don't want to last thing. I want to do that. Be Ridiculous, but,like I wonder what I would write like if I were to write a book, what wouldit be about what were teaching up? That class, though Tim, was that for ourwork, wake principles or something different, how to build a profitablestart up or business without outside financing, and also how to use directresponse advertising and things like that to do so. So at that point in timeyou know, I was actually taught that specific class from Argentina when Iwas doing tango and like having my own sort of crisis and walk about aroundthe planet. So I started at night, I...

...would go to bed and I have these stupidideas about the book and I just take notes on my bedside stand to get themout of my head. So I could go to sleep because I'd really bad in some at thetime and the stack of notes just grew and grew and grew and grew, andeventually I explained this to one of my buddies. who was a writer justjoking, the es like yeah. I have books worth of notes already, like ha ha ha,he said, oh well, you should send my agent see what he thinks and I was likeokay and so send it to a few of his friends. Not just one who re agents,everyone was like a that interested, except for one guy named Steve Hanseland his still my agent to this day he's like yeah. We should make it a book,absolutely totally get it and we put the other proposal sent it out to a tonof publishers. Only a fraction replied. Twenty seven people replied, Twenty sixpeople said Hell, no and in pretty rude terms, usually and then one the finalcrown bought the book for a pittance and nobody expected anything really. Ithink the initial print roms twelve sand copies- and here we are accidentalcareer amazing so and now you're a blogger aswell. You write some fairly lengthy blog posts. Do you know any other formsof writing? I'm not sure. If we want to count twitter and Facebook, I a no noI'd say you know the blog and the books, and I think I'm done with doingthousands of experiments on myself for six hundred page books for a whilebecause it takes a ton out of me. I mean, I think it's just brutal, I mean,but I cut two hundred and fifty pages from the four hour chef and it's sixhundred seven to pages still, but it's Shesoul book. So a lot like the FIRbody. I don't expect anyone to read more than a hundred pages at a timebecause you kind of dip in and dip out the stuff that you want. It is amazingthat you're, basically your late night brain dump, things to try and get tosleep, was the kind of list to create a book and lead to the career you've hadwith the four hour series. Can you maybe tell us, though, I'm sure this isnot how the four hour she came together. This wasn't late night, brain dumpingand boodles on little coffee paper. Anything like that this was acoordinated, experimental traveling around the world. Can you explain fromthe point of conception of a book like this to going about the actualexperiments and recording at tracking results to then actually sitting downand writing the book? Did you back pross? All of that? The way you likeyou doing a day of interviews today, did you do you know a month oftraveling with chefs and then a month of riding the book? How did you do ityeah? I did it mostly that way. One catastrophe that hit me, which reallyscrewed up my plans, was my right hand. Man, like my co right in the middle ofthe process, had a bunch of family crisis and had to stop workingbasically, and so my shield against the outside world, which was allowing me tofocus on the book disappear, and that was a total disaster. So I really had to get good at time,management and organization to an extent that was like multiple, multiplemagnitudes of order. Beyond anything, I'd done before total disaster, I mean I had not beento like the breaking point since, like two thousand, and this projectdefinitely took me there and I think some of my best work came out of it asa result. But the short answer is you know the Book Idea: Christ alied when a few things happenedsimultaneously number one. I really did want to write a book on learning, but Iwas looking for the most entertaining context to do that through a goodfriend of mine. Also around the same time said, you know it would be reallyfun because these other books, like you, go out, you try everything. You learneverything and then you tell people it's like would be really fun for yourreaders just to see you start from total idiot and a skill, ground, zero,clumsy and totally terrible and then walk them through the process ofgetting good at it. These all happened at the same time. Iwas also around that time feeling this very acute, like Digital Malays, whereI wanted to start building things with my hands. I D just like closing thelaptop and having done stuff virtually just wasn't enough. I wanted to buildsomething like a you know, Bird House or whatever, but it was inconvenient tolike go to a wood working shop, and then I watched my girlfriend wholearned to cook. Why watching her grandmother cooking and I was like wowwell, I eat three times a day. Cooking has kicked my ass many times. Maybe Ishould try cooking and now all these things happened simultaneously andthat's how the idea started to come together. What I mean was this is abouta couple years ago to or to years ago, right probably two years ago, and theother thing that was happening is you know, people who are on the foror bodywere like. Oh I'm bored with this this, and this like, I need other types offoods, I'm really bored of eating. Like can beans every day, and so I was like well what if I couldmake a cookbook that was actually a book on learning where all the recipesare slow carved compliant, but nobody will know because they're amazing andnever be never be hungry, except for the cheap mails. Those are epact,that's a separate story and like what, if I could wrap it all into one thatwas like a year and a half two years ago and then sold the book to Amazonpublishing, which was a first and front...

...of the New York Times and everything,and that was quite a process because Amazon was just getting into obviouslypublishing. So it's a big risk, but my feeling was I've done the traditionalthing twice: I'd like to try something new like I'd like to experiment andthen the actual writing process was very different from the first book. Sonow I have tools and organization that I just didn't have that time around sonow I use ever note the application ever not for almost all of my researchand gathering all the bits and pieces I use for any design elements orcapturing visual inspiration, or anything like that. I also use evernote, but in addition to that for interacting with my teams, that was ahuge headache with the last two books was all the email and the worddocuments and a terrible. So ever note, then, to write. I write in a programcalled scrivener which is usually used by screen writers and novelists, butit's great. It allows me to have all of my documents in one view, so I'm notlike opening all these different windows were and having a crash and allthat crap so Scribie, then for any kind of design feedback, because this bookhas were on fifteen hundred photos in it. I use skitch for screen shots whereI can just point out things. I want to move around or change, and then I usescreen flow so screen flow allows me to just take video of my screen as I talkover it with video without video, and that saves dozens of hours and theheart beat of all this I've two main home basis for all of this stuff that Ijust mentioned. So one is drop box. So I'll put like all the videos, all thescreen shots everything into dropbox, so that people can download them attheir leisure and they're all centralized and then for communicationrather than relying on email. I used base camp so base camp by thirty. Sevensignals is what I use for, for instance, right now. I have one project is for HCfor our chef launch right and that's where all the information for my callsthis week are in the calendar for all those calls, and I afford to see site,which is all the for our chef website related stuff for HC side bars, that'sfor editorial stuff and so on and so forth. So it's very systematizes nowand that's kind of my work for this current book and probably the workflowthat I'll use for anything I do moving forward. Although I'm taking a breakfrom this book nonsense and before we talk about your future,which doesn't include books. How long would it take like? Obviously, a booklike this is not narrative where you telling the story? Maybe it is becauseyou've been telling the story in your other books, your own sort of story. Doyou write all at once or do you sit downand do an experiment right about that? How does it come together yeah? So thisbook is highly highly narrative really narrative, because I really think thatstorytelling is the best way to teach. So there's a ton of story telling inthis and the way that I write, it is typically getting notes from anythinghandwritten to digital as quickly as possible. So typically I'll take mynotes by hand. Then I'll go through and I'll highlight the pieces that I thinkare interesting. I will number those in the order that I think they shouldappear in a given section and then I'll put them into something like ever N.for instance, I find that all of my friends who write consistently and putout a decent amount of content- that's good right best between ten P M andeight am so. They either go to bed really late or they wake up reallyearly, and I think that's really simple to explain. I think it's because youyou can it's easiest to concentrate when the rest of the world is freaking,asleep it not on the Internet like knocking onyour door, so I write best I synthesize best after ten P m. What that means isI'll. Do all of my interviews all of my experiments, everything like thatduring the day and if I'm doing synthesis- and sometimes it's like aweek at a time of just experiments. But when I do my synthesis is almost alwaysbetween ten P M and I stay up late. So I'll do like ten PM until I run out ofscheme and if the spirits moving me and I'm in the zone I'll keep on goinguntil I face plant, but that's my general process. This is another key.When I'm structuring my books, the choosing adventure aspect to my books,where you can read them out of the chapters out of order in many cases andso forth, is fun for the reader and it's easier to digest. I think, butit's also easier for me to write, because if I get stuck on a chapter Ican skip to something else and keep working on that and if you're writing abook that has a really strict sequence. It's very difficult to do that becauseyou could write one piece later and then you go back to write somethingearlier like man now. I have to rewrite this this and this because each pieceis dependent on the next. So I really try to make each chapter a self contained magazine Article I thebeginning middle and an end, so I can move it around. I, like that's a niceway of feeling a sense of completion to as you completed section. Oh yeah, it'sgreat otherise you're, just like a...

Ruffian book. Really, Oh my God, andit's like looking at something on your kindle, where you're like really beenreading for an hour, I'm only like point five percent through it. Oh myGod do so. You mentioned base camp and a groupof people who are working with you. Who are they and what do they do? Well,it's different for different phases, right so for the for the actual bookproduction side, I had probably maybe a dozen photographers working atdifferent times, many of which I supervised. I hadsecutive shoots that I su erased in New York City in San Francisco. Myselfillustrators a handful of illustrators, many chefs people being interviewed,many of which were interviewed by me, some of which were interviewed bypeople I hired as professional interviewers, who had done journalismand work for magazines, newspapers so forward for the launch and then ofcourse, designers, and it was like running a start up. It was very muchlike running a thirty or forty person start up without a debt, an had all thehierarchy Nesser to do that on the launch side of things I have publicistin the US publicist or going to be working or sees some, which reportdirectly to me, some of which report directly to like an executive publicistthat I interact with. Then I have a team of people that, for instance,you've interacted with, I think, Alex Maybe Ryan. Yes right ox yea, who arespearheading my digital organization for lunch, then I have all the peopleat Amazon who've actually been awesome to work with, because they are reallylike aggressive Nimble Tech Company and you wouldn't think of like a hundredbillion dollar companies. A Nimble but they're, really freaking fast andAmazon. Publishing has the benefit of being a start up. It's a new. You knowso there's scrappy, which I love. So I have director of marketing that I dealwith their editors and so forth, of course, but it's yet another like Swatteam that I'm working with on the marketing and promotional side. So it'ssuper exciting, but with a project of this scope, it's been really reallyimportant to find people, I think, are world class and bring them in to dothings that not only I don't have the band with to do the things that they'lldo better than I can do so I think I'd be become better at selecting talent aswell over the last few years, which is a skill unto itself. The Best Book I'vefound on interviewing for that type of talent is top grading, but the oldedition, not not the new edition, which you're kind of just up cells to likeprograms and nonsense. The old edition that that in the book itself is whatyou want. Like the first edition, you were doing top grating Yep, okay. Iguess that explains how you brought together. Your team and I assume that'sa mixture of local and contracting overseas, the Old Philippines Indiansucrees- that wherever the best talent is man, Idon't care where they are. I mean I had people doing illustration in Singapore.I people doing illustration in Australia. I had people doing audio forvideo that we're putting together in you know, Estonia with Alania. I don'tcare where they are as long as they're really really good, so yeah. Definitelya mix of people domestic and overseas. Okay, now tim will start to wrap thisup. I'm excited about the book. Obviously it's amazing to see what goesinto something like this to when you hear a broken down like that, it's abig job. It's not a case of sitting in a cafe and writing a couple thousandwords a day for a few months and you're done. You've put a lot into this, butyou've also said that this is potentially Wimmen at your last book,but you're not going to do it again for a while. Of course, you know you got tobe careful when you say things like that, because you never know whathappens next year right yeah like what are you thinking then for the futurelike? What's the float, your boat? Is it shooting people in sniper school or no? We were shooting a steel targetturly, although I what you shooting and I'm like you know, abandoned kittensthey're, pretty slow moving as I for acts. Some people believe me.It's like my Iq test, but I'm really excited about honestly is teaching and books are just one method of teaching,so I'm thirty five. I don't have too many years left this like runningaround, doing crazy, ridiculous stuff to myself. You know once I have afamily, I'm not going to want to do all the extreme human guinea pick stuff,because it's just too much and I do all that pushing the envelope, so myreaders don't have to, but I would still like to do some, so I really wantto experiment with television and video and the visual medium. So I could seeTV or some type of episodic teaching with crazy, crazy experiments andenvironments and settings is my next step. I think I'd really enjoy that,and you know the idea. I've done some TV in the past and theidea of just being able to film an entire season in two months and to havethe entire year to look forward to that stuff and to have teams who wereworking on post production. So I'm not like reading my own God, Damn ChapterSeven Hundred Times myself, it's very appealing, and certainly before I'm notwilling to take some of these physical risks and you know, jump off buildingsor whatever I'd like to capture that...

...it'd be kind of fun to have a diary ofthat stuff. So we'll see, but that's where I'm leaning, HMM, I mean you caneven agin that with episodes, that's seems to be the place. People start now.Yeah Yeah, certainly, could I mean Jesus? It's like. I know you look atsome of these youtube channels. I met some of the superstars ands, like theyhave five times as many youtube subscribers as they would ever get on acable show exactly so. It's amazing it's just the leverage. Is therethere's too many channels now for one show to get that big? I think so yeahsomething about Youtube. So that's who I think, I'm I'll, probably playingaround next. Okay, we'll look forward to seeing that Tam. I look forward tohopefully one they're getting down to San Francisco and hanging out with thiscrowd. I'm I'm assuming you have some intestine friends that you hang outwith on a regular basis down there too. Oh Yeah Yeah, they make me look likeDECAF and men might what's. Funny is like when, when I hear people say likeOh man, you're so intense and you seem so productive on my you should be myfriends like I'm purely a product of my pure group. They make me, look like thelaziest most disorganized guy. You can imagine so it's a good crow out here.You should definitely come and hang out have some wine and some good food allright so to wrap up to obviously four hours chef. Where is the best place toget info about that yeah were our chef, I mean amazons con a be the cheapestplace to get it probably definitely designed it to be the optimalexperience in print. Although the digital be great, like I kind ofplanned it by two page spreads, but for our Chefoo have all sorts of goodies onit and then the one offer for people if they're interested if they buy threecopies of the book, it is the ultimate holiday but- and I feel verycomfortable saying that, because I killed myself to make it that fifteenhundred photos tons of illustrations, Calvin and hob super models, it's gotsomething for everybody, till it kind of lean, hob, supermastodon yeah. Thoseare two separate okay, but if you get three copies of the print book, youknow two for gifts, just send the Amazon receipt to three books at fourhour, Shep comes and the number three books spelled out, obviously at fourthe number four our chef, and I will invite you to an exclusive one to twohour. Qa Live Qa with me. The week after lunch and I'll grab a bottle ofwine, you can ask me anything that you want. So if you get three books,there's that as well, but either way want people to at least start pushing alittle bit on the things that they've held off on trying to learn, becausethere are adventures to be had and you're doing them all at the same time.So it's a inspiring, it was to say the least, put the links to clarify thosedetails alone with the blog post that goes with this podcast and thetranscript as well Tim. That's it any last words before we say good bye. Now.What I would say is just in this sounds morbid, but this is part of the reasonwhy I really do you know I don't have any problem with hard work as long asit's applied to the right things, and I think that's clear if you read the fourhour week and like the reason that I bleed out my eyeballs for a book likethe for chef and this was. This was really brutal process to bout thisthing together. But it's because I've had some of my friends pass way in thelast few years, whether it through accidents or sickness, and it's likelife is short, and I think that the most incredible force multiplier thatyou can possibly have is by like doubling or tripling your learningpotential and that's something you can pass on your kids and everything. So itsounds kind of somber kind of serious, but it's legitimate, and so I justencourage people to take life seriously is non renewable, so at least as far aswe know so- and that would be in one- and I think you'd be the first personto agree that, just because you pass thirty or forty or fifty doesn't meanyou're, learning capacity decreases right, not at all, and actually I canprove that adults learn languages faster than Kids and plus it's like talk to any three year old, like theirEnglish is not so hot like you can do a lot better, so you absolutely can tackle anything. Imean Colonel Stander started to tell you right chicken an he was like sixtyyears old, so it's never too late to get started all right. That is the second interviewwith Tim Ferris. I hope you enjoyed it when I really appreciate and respectabout Im as how multidimensional he is, he has gone from being. You know yourtypical side, Hustle Entrepreneur, to becoming a very well known, respectedauthor, despite not being the kind of person who who loves to write to thengraduating to become a full blown angel investor, doing incredibly wellconnecting with some very smart people. Some early start upset today are multibilling dollar companies like Uber and spotify. Then he transition to becomingessentially a podcaster and has become one of the most well known podcaster.So he's got a bit of a MIDAS touch. It seems like everything he does turns togold. You can tell why, though, he's a smart guy and he puts in the work to doall these experiments and to learn what works and just to do good marketing anddo good content. You know that is being certainly a consistent key throughouteverything. He's a great founder he's. A great marketer he's a great contentcreator. Now all those characteristics are very much what I focus on here atthe vested capital podcast. So I love getting angel, investorss and start upfounders on the show. Certainly, people...

...who are very successful with growingcapital, creating cash flow and then investing that capital into otherstreams of income that quite often are income streams that run without youlike for a lot of us. We start with a muse aside business like Tim, thatallows us to break free. Then we create income streams that are not dependenton our labor. We systematize our business. Maybe we have an exit andthen we become potential investors in whatever vehicle for investing. We likewhether it's crypto property other startups by Angel, investing or somesort of venture capital, and that's the kind of person that you're going tohear from as a subscriber to this podcast feste capital. So if your lovehearing from Tim, your love hearing from all the other guests, I've how inthe show you can go back and listen to many other start up founders andinvestors in the back catalog invested capital plus to make sure you get allthe new episodes as I release them, you have to subscribe so hit that plusbutton that bookmark button that follow button. The like button, if you'redoing this on Youtube, wherever it is, you happen to be listening to my show,subscribe and that way, you'll get everything as I release it and tellyour friends. This episode, with with Tim Ferris, might be the perfectepisode to open the eyes of a certain family, member or spouse or colleague,at work or just a friend, a person who's important in your life. Who needsto hear this sort of advice from a person like Tim that might break themout of certain patterns of thought that they're stuck in that you feel areholding them back, so just send them to best a capital episode. Eighteen withTim, Paris and I'll, get all three interviews as you are enjoying rightnow and speaking of which, let's dive into my very first original interviewwith Tim Ferris, all about his first book that put him on the map the fourhour work week. Here we go Timothy Ferris or Tim Ferris, theauthor of the four hour work week, which is a book I just finished reading,thanks for joining us today to Oh s, y pleasure, like shaving me. This book isliterally everywhere at the moment is certainly a very prolific is the bestway to put it. So you have to explain for the people that have not read itbefore and maybe haven't heard of Tim Paris. What are you all about, and whathave you done and what's the book all about I'll try to give you the nutShell, so I'm against Letcher at Prince University and high tech on re penership and over the last three years, or so I have traveled through more thantwenty countries, automating, both myself, my own life and my business, soseeing to what extent is possible to outsource and automate your life in adigital in a flat world and the combination of the content of myPrinceton class, as well as my experiences over the last few years.Really looking at things like virtual outsourcing and out forcing your lifeis before our work weekness the content of the book, and it also contains casestudies of people. I met along the way, who have really designed ideallifestyles for themselves by understanding that there are threecurrencies in a digital world and in descending or if in importance as ourtime in coming mobility, so really using time and mobility to multiply thelifestyle output of your money. Essentially so one thing I talked aboutquite a bit in the book is that people talk about being a millionaire, butwhat they really want is not to have a million dollars in the bank, but thelifestyle that they perceive is limited to people who have a million dollars.And realistically you can do that with fifty or sixty sandolas quite easily intoday's Day and age. So that's the book as far as my background people oftenask for you know what do you do, which is, of course the hardest question forme to answer, because what I do for income and what I do with my time ortwo very different things, but I compete as a fighter. I've beennational champion cake boxing. I hold a geisel record the tango, because Icompeted in tango and Argentina for six months. I've been on television andHong Kong and China is an FBI agent and a TV series. I've been a breakdancer onTV and Taiwan. The list goes on and on at all, but I'm also the founder and anCO company with sales distribution and more than fifteen countries, with someor between two hundred and three hundred for time in contract employees.So I do have a very strong business side as well. That's the nutshell.Actual to one last pace or background is: I grew up in a very low to middleincome family. My parents never made more than Situado a year combined andI've been working since Gen fourteen. So I don't come from an extremelyfinancially privileged background, either. Okay, so given then yourbackground, you have middle income parents. What point in your life? Didyou realize that you maybe didn't have to work terribly hard in order to livethe kind of lifestyle you want to live because I'm assuming you were born withthis insight and you go straight away and create this fantastic lifestyle?You had to learn that through experience with ut be right. That'sabsolutely right and I think it began...

...with a book I read when I was fifteenactually by Dan Kennedy, called how to make millions with your ideas and itexposed me things like private, labeling and licensing things that I'venever considered before. I began to realize that it was possible toseparate income from ours, so you didn't have to work for an hourly or anannual rate. It's been an evolutionary process for me. I think another pointwas when I was at Princeton. I worked for eightdollars an hour in a library attic and there was no heat, there's noventilation whatsoever. It was a miserable experience and, drawing backon what I had read and a few interviews, I'd done for different magazines. Iactually formed a seminar to teach people different accelerated learningtechniques and the monic things of that type and I charged fifty per person andend up making more than fifteen hundred dollars in my first seminar, which wasthree hours long. So I realized at that point that this could actually work,and the limitation on that model with the seminars was of course, that if Ididn't license it- and I didn't find it terribly interesting after the firstfew weeks- but in license it- it still required me to be present. So I beganlooking at ways of product izing that expertise so that it would be morescalable so that I could sell a thousand dollars as easily as I could,a hundred or even by extension, sell a million dollars as easily as I couldhave thousand, and I really didn't put those principles into practice until Iwould say two thousand and one two thousand and two, so it took me sometime to actually sit down and implement them properly. Your your twenty eightor twenty nine years old, twenty nine twenty nine right. So you like me, amtank twenty eight this year. So I mean to even get to that point at this.Young Age is quite a it's good to have that realization from the early days. Ihate to be realizing that we were not after self employment situations. Bythe time you a fifty or something like that, so very true yeah. I'm curiousthough I mean. Obviously the principle here is to have a four hour work weekand there's a lot of people. I know from my listeners and my readers whothere at usually a cross roads. They definitely have a strong interest inentrepreneurship and running their own business, but they're trapped in fulltime jobs and I think of the standard story that is that they they work veryhard during the day they come home, they're too tired to do anything else.I mean I've, read the books. I've got your advice from that for the peoplewho are who are employed. But can you give this the nuttall explanation ofwhat you do? Teach people who are in that situation in order to startcreating some of those freedoms so that they can essentially work less and playmore or you know, live the the kind of lifestyle that you're talking aboutsure. Absolutely so, if you're in a full time, job that you perceive isrequiring you to put in eighty nine hours a week, it's very hard to developthe entrepreneurial income sources that I talk about one section of the book.The principles can be applied, even if you remain in your job, but certainlythe automation of income is much easier. If you do have some type of news, as Icall Roach explain a muse explain to me so so muse when people say I want tostart a business, I find the term business to be too ambiguous, because abusiness could refer to a lemonade stand in the same way that it refers toa big five oil concolor tes. So I find it too amorphous to be of use. So youcan start businesses to change the world like a body shop, you can startbusinesses to have them acquired or to reach an IPO. But in our particularcase I limit the scope of business to a vehicle that provides the incomenecessary to actualize your ideal lifestyle in terms of having and doingso. What is your target monthly income? That is e. If you want to have an as toMartin DB nine and go to feed you once a year and have XYZ and do expince whatis the average monthly cost of that, and then what is the most efficientcastles source to get you to that figure and that's amused? The onlypurpose of amuse is to free your time and satisfy your financial needs andwants as a relates to that target, both the income. So the first steps that youneed to take of course, number one is to define that target month of incomeso trying to get to the four hour work week before you define your desiredoutcome. Is a feudal exercise. You really need to take a step back andstop readapting to over stimulation so that you can reassess your directionand what you're spending time on a very easy way to create that space. To beginwith is- and this would be an example of elimination versus organization- SoI'm not a very strong proponent of time management in the traditional sense,because I feel that it doesn't scale there's a limit to the number of tasksyou can put an outlet calendar and the number of things you can consume anddigest it dealy today. So I focus on elimination. One concrete example ofthat is limiting the number of times you check, email per day and batchingthat so what I mean by that is, you could create an auto responder and issometimes called vacation, auto...

...response that tells everyone to send toan email, deer all in an effort to escape the in box and get real workaccomplished or because of pending dead, lies or case workload. I'm currentlychecking email at Elena am and four PM. Whatever your time zone is, if you needan urgent response before one of those two times. Please contact me at andthen you provide your phone number and thank you for your understanding. Thismove to effectiveness and efficiency, so I can serve everyone better and whatthat automatic does is. It creates the breathing room to focus on first of all,defining what your target monthly income is and what your targetlifestyle is. Secondly, reassessing the vehicle I or full time job to see. Ifit's getting you closer to that and then in all cases, both with your fulltime job and, ultimately, the business that you create. The news is doing avery strict t, twenty analysis and identifying what the twenty percent ofactivities are that produce eighty percent of your desired outcomes, sothat outcome could be profit so what twenty percent of my customers withtwenty percent of my activities? What twenty percent of the people Iassociate with are producing eighty percent of my profit and thenruthlessly eliminating the inverse of that, so the twenty percent of thepeople and activities that consume eighty percent of your time, and if youdo those two things, even in a full time job, you can begin to focus onbeing productive instead of being busy because most people since they're, in anine to five office environment or if they come from that environment, evenwhen they start their own company. They believe that they have to be doingsomething at all times from ninety five, so they invent minutia and he and thoseManusha begin to drive out the more important tasks. So the four steps thatI outline in the four hour work week are the commonalities. I found amongpeople both employees, CEOS and outre preneurs that has enabled them to havea four hour work week or somewhere between a forty hour work. We end fourhour work week, so ten hours, fifteen hours, whatever they choose, theirinput will be and the steps are definitions. We talked about a fewexamples of that target: monthly income that eight twenty analysis, elimination,which would be the during the inverse it twenty. So eliminating theactivities and people that consume that time. Then you have automation andliberation, and I talk about liberation with employees full time, employeesquite often, because there's actually a broad spectrum of entrepreneurshipbetween full time, employee and full time, Montpont our full time businessowner. So I use the term entrepreneur to refer to someone as the way that itwas originally coined. So Jean Baptist J B, Say coin the term entrepreneur tomean someone who moves resources from an area of low yield to an area of highyield, and that could mean air full time employee who simply negotiates aremote work agreement, perhaps one day a week and then extend that to twothree days a week, so that you have the freedom to eliminate on important tasksor minimally important tasks, and then that could evolve naturally to being amoonlighter or someone who splits their time. Fifty fifty perhaps using thisremote days to focus on their their own muses after they've eliminated. Some ofthe the non essentials all the way to the full time, business owner- and Isay business owner as opposed to entree, because most entrepreneurs are verygood technicians. That's a term that Michael Gerber would use from the enitthey're very good at doing a specific function and they end up becomingbusiness managers because they can't let go and that's why you findentrepreneurs end up being run by their business is not the other way around.So your goals should be to be a business owner and have a business thatruns without you, so that you don't need to make the small decisions and you're not in the middle of theinformation flow as opposed to outside of it. So those would be a few conceptsto keep in mind as you're, trying to make that migration from full time infloe WHO's too tired to do things at night to someone who creates time andis able to use it in the way that they deem most exciting or fulfil right. Sojust the summarise, I have to straighten everyone else. Has Itstraight? It would be the etten role. So your eliminating tasks that don'tprovide much output for you in your work environment and then slowlynegotiating a means to work remotely and demonstrating that, despite thefact that you do work remotely, you actually produce the same or even moreoutput for the company you're working for and when that prays up some time tostart creating some of these muses you're talking about you know, are toget some cash fo happening and then slowly reduce your a pendency on yourfull time. Employment check for your livelihood that in a nut, show yeah, Imean in Nutcha. That would be one approach. Just some other options thatI want to put out on the table for people to consider is most employees,particularly good performers with valued skill sets under estimate theirleverage. So another very simple option would be to say: okay, I'm not going tocheck email. This is something you hould basically proposed to your boss.You said I could look. I want a thirty percent pain increase and I'm not goingto answer any email at night or on the...

...evenings, and I want to spend Fridaysat home at a Home Office and if you're, in a position where providing thatwould be less painful than firing you, you know nine times out of ten there'sa way you can frame it so that you get that. So I just want to throw that outthere, because there was a gentleman recently who was an attend when I spokeat the web. Two Point: Oh conferences in San Francisco or you know Jeff Basis,and there pit were speaking and he said: okay. Well, I'm going to try this, butif I get the fire I'm going to blame you, I said I as fine. You know I giveit a shot and I told him to ask for more than he expected to get and he satdown. He said me n eval about a week later and he sat down with his boss,and this is amazing because he went way beyond where I would have gone. But heasked for three days at home per week as for pay increase, he asked to bejudged on performance instead of presents, so his billal hours wereconverted into completed projects and he asked for a whole laundry list ofabout ten things and then the end of its email. I said miraculously theyagreed to all of it. So don't underestimate your leverage, it's ahuge pain in the ass and very expensive and time consuming to replace goodemployes yeah, and they never know until you try it's amazing what can canhappen? I know there's probably plenty of stories of the reverse, where peoplehave had a lot of trouble with their employers, who are just maybe they're,not in a very senior positions, so they don't have much leverage because of thetype of work they do given that circumstance. What's the best advicelike if you're clearly facing too much opposition from your employer to getthat sort of circumstances of a case of well, you actually start looking for adifferent type of employment situation or actually quit your job. What's thedevice? Oh yeah, I mean honestly elimination is often a much bettersolution to fixing a seemingly irreparable situation so for anyonewho's ever been fired or laid off. They realized pretty quickly that it'susually not the nightmare world. It's over scenario that people who haven'tbeen fired or laid off believe it to be and quitting isn't either. So I have achapter in the book called killing a job, because you know some people wantto know. Like Ok live this boss, he yells at me. He gave me a blackberry.He calls me on Saturday evenings and this this and this I can't do anything.What should I do, and I say quit your job with the hell. Are you doing takingthat kind of abuse? I mean honestly, most people are listening to thiscaller, not in a third world country, we're not going to have health care toprovide for them if they take a two or three week, hiatus in between jobs, tofind a new one. So I mean there are cases where that's the best option andeven in lower end positions, it is very expensive to replace and train NewPeople, so you have to present it in the right fashion, though I mean youneed to present things like remote work as a business advantage of businesssolution as opposed to a personal perk. So you wouldn't say I hate my commuteand Mike you know Bob the CO worker. You know cubicle invader drives me nuts,so I want to work at home two days a week. That's a personal perk. You wouldneed to say it instead, number one take a step back and assess exactly how yourperformance is measured and what your contribution to the profit loss is. Ifyou have one- and you could say, okay, you know I actually spent last Saturdayat working because my family was out of town or what have you and I was able toproduce twice as many bill blowers and seventy five percent of the time, andthat was without any type of confirmation, or back and forth emailwith you or persons ABC. So it saved me time. Increased company profit. It alsoprevented the type of back and forth time. Considering communication thathappens when I have, I am interrupting me and phone calls interrupting meevery three minutes in the office, and that really surprised me. So you knowit saves me time saves you time than it actually will help us reach our newquarterly income gals. Would it be possible to take let's say Thursday andtry the that one day, just a one time experiment this week or next week andsee what happens and when you propose it in that way, it's very hard forsomeone to just say no, and you need to learn how to ask good questions. Youdon't say you can I do this. You say you I'd love to test this. Just onceyou know. Is that reasonable and it's very precise, and when you ask thesetypes of of questions and in the book, one thing you might remember I talkabout is always assuming the person's going to say no and having acontingency plan, and you know a fall back offer as well as three to sixresponses to the expected jections because they're going to come. So whenyou start with that and you walk into a presentation, a proposal preparedyou'll usually come out with an improved situation. Very rarelyreligious reject it out of hand if you present it in the right way. If they do,I guess what you just need a new boss right. So it's all about framing thequestion. So it's what's in it for them and not what's in it, for you so muchright in that yeah. I think you just kind of pretty much the core advice.That, obviously, is a lot more to it. But really that's that's the cord bysome people who want to start moving towards a four hour queek. You,probably you know, had a lot of...

...interaction with a lot of people whoare trying to replicate what you're teaching there do you find that thebiggest stumbling book for most of these people is? Is the mindset or asense of fear than anything else like because if you give them the toolswhich you really do and there's a lot of people who then don't follow throughwith the tools? What is the stumbling block? The Road Block Yeah? I think theroad block is fear, but it's not just fear. It's ambiguous fear, and this iswhy I spent so much time on this when I was first counseling students and thenalso my friends, we've gone through some very interesting careers and youknow I have friends who sell companies for like four hundred and eightymillion dollars. Eight hundred fifty million dollars and the existentialquestions don't go away. What I mean by that is money doesn't solve most of theproblems, the existential the bigger questions that people have soretirements out. It's not a solution and when you step back- and you askyourself what's preventing me from creating from designing the lifestylethat I want now as opposed to thirty forty years from now, you usually comeup with a number of things, and it's very important, just like goal settingto be effective needs to be very, very precise and measurable. What I callfear setting is analogous to that, but applied to fears. So as soon as youdefine fear, pirs very, very clearly and I'll give a personal example. Youtend to be able to overcome them, and so, in my particular case, I reachedthreshold in mid June, two thousand and four. I was working nine our weeks andI realized it was unsustainable. I had gone through three very goodrelationships and destroyed all of them because I was too consumed by mybusiness and Yeah Big Bummer, and you know it was a real wake up call for me,because I realized that my life and the business couldn't go exist. At thatpoint- and I took a step back and I decided that I wanted to take a trip toLondon- to decompress, pull myself out of that environment, that speeded agood environment and really reassess how I could either redesign my businessor shut it down before I took that trip to London ex it was going to be a fourweek trip I just like. Oh my God, I will never work. You know I can't leave.I check email two hundred times a day. How am I going to take a trip fromLondon? What am I going to do about this? What am I goin t do about myapartment? You know what am I going to do with all my furniture, and there wasjust excuse, excuse excuse to put it off and what it came down to us. I hada fear of the unknown so when I actually sat down one day and what wasthe epitome of my you know, don't happy be worry phase. I sat that I was likeyou know. What's the worst thing, I could absolutely happen. Er I was likeokay, so I leave someone breaks into my apartment steal, so my furniture, okay,fine, I mean if someone steals my identity and I lose what's in. Let'ssay one of my bank cous: okay, fine, you know I'm traveling abroad and Icome to the conclusion that my business can't co exist with my life and I shutdown the business okay, fine and when I looked at what are the worst thingsthat could happen and if all of those things happened, what would I do torecover? That's the most important second part. So what are the steps Icould take to recover? What would I do like? Let's say that I'm not projectingin the future, but let's say all these things just happened yesterday. Whatwould I do today and as soon as I started, asking those questions, Irealized that the Oh, my God, my life is over scenario, really wasn't thatbad. It was actually quite easy to recover from and it would take a littlebit of effort and time to get back the baseline. If that's what I wanted, butI already had the experience. I knew how to resume my current path later, ifthat's what I decided to do, and I've seen that again and again worth, forexample, I've friend investment banker, another friend who is a lawyer and theyboth were like. Oh my God, it's going to look terrible on my resume. If Ihave a gap, it's going to be a disaster because they wanted to try their ownbusinesses and they both tried their own businesses and both of them endedup succeeding. But what was funny is even a year year and a half later, theywere still getting job offers in both of those Iniurias, and they could pickup exactly where they left off. Even with that resume gap, most people don'trealize that the resumes for you, it's not for somebody else, so reallydefining fears. Very clearly. You know. What's the worst thing that couldhappen if I consider doing x and how would I recover it? How could I getback to where I am now, if that were to come to pass? That's why one thing thatI felt was so critical about making the the book accessible to people is reallyexpanding their comfortable sphere of action in small baby steps. So you havethese comfort exercises that I propose people to take advantage of, and evenat my Princeton classes isn't something I talk about much, but I ath achallenge at the end of each class for the last few years, where I basicallysaid look, I know all of you listen to this. You might think some of it'sinteresting, but almost all of you are going to walk out and do exactly theopposite. So here's what I'm posing you take one principle and apply it in thisway or you know, try to get a hold of three celebrities who are impossible toreach and get them to answer a question you want them to answer and whoeverdoes this in less impress a fashion gets a free triparound the worldanywhere they want and two things are...

...amazing. The first is everyone says: Ohmy God signed me. If I want to compete and then out of a class of about sixtypeople, three people actually do it. That's the first because they expectthat everyone else is going to do it. They overestimate the competition atunderestimate themselves and end up completely shooting themself at thefoot so about three people of sixty will try it and then of those threepeople. Just to give you an example. Last year they were able to get intouch with people like George Bush senior, the Co of HP, comcast GoldmanSachs. The list goes on and on and on and on and on just because they'rewilling to try it, so it really being willing to test and then evaluate theworst case right realistically and coping to recover. That would be a longanswer to a short question. But yes, it's good stuff to ambiguous fear is a very bad thing andit's inaction able, but as soon as you define it, you can overcome it yeah andI can see you quite passionate about helping people do that which leads meto my next question is: When did you sit down first initially and decide?You willed to write this and help people with this area of their lives,and- and what's you know, your grand purpose with all of this? What's in itfor Tim and and what's in it with you now the bigger picture? Well, there area few things: I've always enjoyed writing and I've studied with some goodwriters, but never planned out. Writing a book. I actually find it very hard,but right I find it very difficult to right. I was in Argentina preparing forthe World Championships in Tango and I did my lecture at Princeton remotelyvia fun, and I had just tons of follow up email because it was the first classwhere I really talked about my concept of lifestyle design as a replacementfor long hall, Career Planning, and I really dove into a lot of e for theprinciples and ideas that I now teach their every semester. There were tonsof questions and then one student, because I wrote back to him- and I saidman, you know I've about thirty pages of email responses. I've alreadywritten seems like I'm, really hit a nerve here and he wrote back and he waslike yeah. Well, maybe you should just put it all into a book and be done withit. Ha Ha ha and I think that's how a lot of businesses start. You know it'slike. Oh that'd, be really funny if ha ha ha and then the idea just doesn't goaway. So That's how the book started. It just wouldn't go away. The idea waskeeping me up at night, so I put together a proposal. Did my homework,send it to Jack Canfield, who I recruited as a mentor mind. You knowfive hated to do that by the way. Okay, I can I'll tell that in one second, so,okay, I sent him the proposal and basically said Jack. You know, am Icompletely full of crapper? Is there something here and then he said? No, Ithink you have something here and he made the necessary introductions for meto get an a list agent and then we sold the book. It's very easy to sell thebook if you get nailest Geo behind you. So I'll answer the grand plan and thenI'll tell you how I got Jack Grand Plan for me is to have a huge destructiveeffect with the book, meaning that it catalyzes an enormous backlash againstan overwork culture that, I think is just out of control, because you knowmore hours does not mean more productive and you, a more connectivity,does not mean happier more successful. I think things are really out ofcontrol in that the average work week is not. Seventy hours forms reportedthat recently and it's just going to get worse. It's going to get a lotworse unless people take some very dramatic and uncommon steps. So that'sthe bigger picture. I want this book to be a manifesto for people. I reallywant it to be a movement. Okay. The taking is that further than given thatdestructive effect happens, and obviously people reduce the amount ofwork, they're doing presumably they're getting happier as a result. Right.That's that's, obviously a big call out of it. Do you think that would resultin a cultural shift in some way that may have an even greater effect thannecessarily on a micro level? Oh absolutely. I think that it will helptake the concept of results, only work environment, which is already beenimplemented by companies like best by and in some cases like Netflix, whereyou can work whenever wherever you want. As long as you hit certain performancegoals, I think that it can help get that to the tipping point wherecompanies will have to adopt that to compete against each other, and so youknow I've spoken to Google. I've spoken a papal. I've spoken I've been invitedto speak at some of t se these innovative companies here at Sokabe.Because of that- and I see this having a much greater effect than just on anindividual personal level. I think it can have a huge institutional effect aswell and even a governmental effect. I won't even get into that, but I mean asfar as Amanto unpaid vacation days and things like that. I mean I v very grandplans for this, but one step at a time. So, as far as what's t for me, I meanthe there's a lot in it for me, but just seeing the ideas implemented andrecognized in some cases, for I think the value that they offer is huge forme, because I've seen t it on a...

...microscale, the Princeton class, and Iwanted to magnify that effect on a huge national international scale, and Ithink I can do that. So as far as till I got Jack I'll keep it short justbecause I know I know I don't have too much time left, but I volunteered witha not for profit group called the Silicon Valley, Association of start upentrepreneurs here in silicon bally. So it's not for profit that focus onfostering on prenter hip and they always have very good entrepreneurs.You know titans of entrepreneurship and CEOS, etc. Speaking at their events anda very good way to meet these people as to volunteer with one of these notforprofits, I volunteered to actually produce an event so to be the programshare, essentially for a big event that I I was going to focus on entrepreneurswho a created a multi million dollar in some cases, multiple billion dollarcompanies with no outside financing, and it was my job to recruit all thespeakers. So I had the credibility of this stuff for profit behind me and Iwent out, and I got people like the founder of electronic arts, theinventor of the cheape. That means anything to you guys over there, sadly enough, it does to me at the guys,brilliant though, and really brilliant distribution guy, a guy named Ed Bird,who was the first person to bring Creatam monohydrate to market the mostpopular sports supplement of all time. And then one of the other speakers Iwanted to get was Jack Canfield, and it was very hard for me to get a hold ofhim because he gets bothered by everybody. So I bought a plane ticketflew down to La to go to Book Expo which is largest book trade show in theworld, probably in the country, at least in the US, and I basicallystocked him. I just waited in a room where I knew it's going to be speakinguntil he showed up and walked up and stood right in the aisle in front ofhim and stopped him, and I said Jack. If you don't know me, my name is TimFerris, I'm working for a really well known entrepreneurial, not for profitin Silicon Valley. I would really like you to speak at our event, they'regoing to be a lot of incredible people there, I'd like to introduce you to whoare also at the same m level as yourself, I'm not sure if you'd beinterested, but I want to do this with you and he said. Okay, you reallydidn't know what to say, because I just kind of jumped out of a chair to hop upin front of him and- and he gave me a business card and he's like all right.So me, an email and ten emails. Twenty mails, thirty maleslater I got him to come down and speak to this event, which was very hard todo because his usual speaking fees are like thirty to fifty grand plus, it'snot eating any case. I got him to come down and speak and we became friendsand he just kept in touch. So I really engaged a conversation with him and Iwas interested in what he'd done. I didn't pitch anything. I didn't haveany, how I wasn't asking for any help, but I ended up being interviewed forhis book the success principle so in that book and then I was also sointerviewed for his more recent book. You got to read this book, which is youknow about the the books that have changing. It was like yeah, so I havelike a chapter in there. So. Finally, when I decided to do my own book, itwas just a natural fit, so I knew him for five years or so before. I everasked him for anything just keeping in touch. You know once every six months,every eight months, nine months and just kind of following each other andwhat we were doing so that's how it happened right you had a relationship.Yeah, that's that's thing. That's I mean it's very similar to how Iapproached this book. You know I had relationships with a lot of thebloggers you've seen talking about the book. It was very similar. I made theeffort to get to know these people because I found them interesting and Iwas interested in what they were doing you a month before the book ever cameout. Then you know it's funny because I get these emails and phone calls likeyou know. What's the best way to pitch blockers, and I'm like you know, I'mnot sure you find people you're interested inthink have a lot of shared DNA. Who would find your book of value and thenyou know you offer it with absolutely no expectations and send it to them andhope for the bad. Don't Pitch Really! No exactly! Okay! Well we're almost atthat point. We we got to end this call. So I'm going to end with my getting itlike to be a famous question now for the people listening to this car whoare right at the beginning, we haven't really started any of this process ofgoing towards either starting a business or reducing the amount of workthey do that their employment. What would be your number one piece ofadvice to help these guys? Just start the momentum happening sure, okay, sothe number one piece of advice is to sit down and define in quantitativeterms exactly what you need to experience your ideal lifestyle in thehere and now and not in the deferred life plan of retirement, so sit downand there are actually worksheets and calculators and everything that you canuse for this on my website, I doesn't cost me anything. It's go to four hourwork week, com. You can spell it. However, you want. I have a hundredyour hells for it for our com and you create. Essentially a spreadsheet ofthis is my ideal lifestyle. These are all the things I dream of doing inretirement, and then you calculate the average monthly cost and when you dothat, what's amazing, is you realize that it is often much more inexpensivethan you think and all of a sudden, the...

...idea of spending the most capable yearsof your life, doing something that is anything less than extremely excitingbecomes absolutely repulsive and that's the type of system shock the type ofpattern interrupt that most people need to get them to take the first few stepsso really defining what your target monthly income is and your ideallifestyle is. That would be my recommendation.

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