Vested Capital
Vested Capital

Episode 19 · 1 month ago

(EP19): Wil Schroter, Founder of Startups.com, Blue Diesel, Unsubscribe.com, Acquired Zirtual, Clarity.fm

ABOUT THIS EPISODE

It's hard to summarize all the success of Wil Schroter. He's founded so many companies.

Today he's founder of Startups.com, a business education site and suite of tools and resources for entrepreneurs, some of which were previous startups by Wil (Fundable, Bizplan) and some were acquired (Zirtual, Clarity).

Wil got his start early online, initially exploring bulletin boards with a commodore computer. He then launched a web design agency, Blue Diesel, in 1994, again very early to a new industry.

His agency grew, later merging with a more traditional design agency, creating a full suite offline/online marketing firm. In a surprise success, the firm landed a massive client worth $250 Million in billings, beating out many larger agencies. 

Wil eventually exited his agency ownership shares when the company was acquired. As a youg guy of just 27 he had earned enough money to retire, yet he decided to get back into entrepreneurship.

I enjoyed this part of the podcast because Will explained why it was a mistake to be the founder of so many companies after exiting his first, yet why he wanted to and what his life was like back then working 16 hour days.

After a massive anxiety attack that landed Wil in the hospital, he realized things had to change (he was also about to have his first child, adding to his motivation to stay healthy and alive!).

This experience informed his decision to create Startups.com, and how he would still have multiple entities, but they would be integrated to serve the same customer and thus be easier to manage and grow together.

Towards the end of the podcast I asked Wil to explain how he is able to market and attract customers to so many different companies over the years, and also to briefly touch on his current personal investing strategy.

Enjoy the podcast.

Yaro

Podcast: https://www.yaro.blog/pod/
Blog: https://www.yaro.blog/

Hello, this is Yaro and welcome toepisode. Nineteen of vested capital featuring my guest will schroter Vestacapital is a podcast about how people make money and put their capital towork. I interview star up founders and will, while he is certainly a start outfounder many many companies he's found it. I also interview Angel Investors,Venture Capitalists, Crypton Stock Traders, real estate investors andleaders in technology, so will, with today's episode, I've known well atleast from afar, digitally online for many years, mostly though, as thefounder and CEO of startups com that is kind of like an umbrella brand, it's aneducation business for founders, but it also has a bunch of companies under it,some of which were started by will and some of which were acquired and broughtin under the star of Com brand. It's actually quite clever will explain thisduring today's interview. His overall kind of philosophy around start upom,it's kind of basically providing an answer to every problem that a founderwill have so under that brand. Besides, just the education and support servicesSTART UPOM provides there's bus plan, there's clarity, which is a serviceoffering mentors a bus plan, is obviously this planning fun. The ball,which is crowd, sourcing funding for your company Lantra and virtual virtualis a virtual assistant company, and it's actually one of the reasons why Ifeel, like I know, will so well. I did a lot of deep dive research into whenvirtual was sold as a company. It was started by Mar and Kate. I knew herfrom the world of blogging. I had a few conversations with her she'd been on mypodcast, and she started this amazing company virtual, which unfortunatelyhad a bit of a negative experience with just some mismanagement of funding andcash flow in order to pay the staff. I won't go into that long story now, butthe short version is, after all, that kind of ended will stepped in andbought out. The company and virtual now operates as a service under START UPCOM and because I run in bucks done, we have very similar services. So I'mconstantly, you know up against CIRTA among other competitors. In the virtualassistant space, so I feel like I know virtual very well, but this episodereally is all about will and its history and his history is not justabout star ups Com. In fact he spends the first half of this episode. Talkingabout blue diesel, which is his very first company, started all the way backin ninety four. It was an agency so basically building websites forcompanies, but not just like every day businesses. He actually went out therein cold, called some big companies landing clients like best by bank, oneand Master Card. I even asked him: How exactly do you get Master Card as aclient with your little Web Design Agency all the way back in ninety fourI'll? Let will answer that question you'll hear him answer if, in thisinterview, amazing enough, that agency grew sixty five million dollars inbillings in a few years, without any outside investors, he later merged itwith kind of a traditional agency, then they landed a client which wasbasically a two hundred, and fifty million dollar account. It was huge thefact that their agency got that deal compared to some of the other bidders,for it was massive, obviously, ramped the growth of their company up to anincredible level, and eventually their company was acquired by another company,which was then flowed on the stock market. Again will explain thosestories, the short answers he did exit from all that and he was certainly hedidn't talk specific numbers, but I got the impression that he was pretty muchable to retire at that stage if he wanted to, but he didn't, he was onlytwenty seven years old, so he died back into entrepreneurship, kind of starteda bit of a like an incubator way way before incubators and accelerators forstartup companies were common in the sort of mid two sands, so that wasn'tto me this is really really the fun...

...park to listen to will talks about allthese companies that he was attempting to run with himself. As the CEO andfounder raising funding for multiple companies trying to grow multiplecompanies, he was doing sixteen hour days. It was crazy all the way to thepoint where he gave himself a massive panic attack ended up in hospital, andthat was like a big reset button for him. He was about to have his firstchild as well, and he basically decided I got to take two months off. I got toreconstruct how I am an entrepreneur, how I am in a founder. We started tosell off some of his companies, and that was where the genesis for startupcome came into the story, which still is an opportunity for will to exploremultiple companies and kind of enjoy running an enterprise along multipleverticals, but within a much more imogenes kind of strategy. You know itis all about helping founders just with different verticals within that space,so it's kind of easier to manage that way and actually ask him, because I wascurious, it sounds like you're still running multiple companies, but nowyou're not having panic attacks. So what is the difference and willdescribes? You know how his current philosophy and the framework forrunning start up com and all the the services and brands under that? Andthat's an important thing to listen to, because it's actually quite smart. Theway he says you can apply a specialist skill set or like a certain staffmember across these multiple brands, for example, someone who does paperclick marketing can do it for all the companies under the one brand, so theycan be checking the ad campaigns each day and just managing that, as opposedto say, will, for example, trying to do paper, click and then, where all theother hats to the same time. So it's it's a nice framework forspecialization. Even if you are running multiple companies, sort of runningmultiple companies in the structure will has with start up com. I also askwill to explain a little bit about his marketing strategy, which was actuallyreally interesting to hear about because he has grown so many differentcompanies in so many different industries. You know things from leastswapping, I'm not sure how much he was involved with that. There wasUNSUBSCRIBE, which was a company about dealing with junk mail. Then he wasdealing with like running television production, so many different thingsand of course he had to grow all of them and use as marketing skill. So Iask: Will what is go to strategy for getting marketing getting attentiongrowing, an audience getting customers for a start up today, well worthlistening into that pint this interview for that alone, and I also write thevery end. Ask Him what is his investment strategy since he's beenquite wealthy from a very young age? So he gives it an answer. You probablywill expect from that. One. Okay really excited to give this interview to youwith will Schroeder the founder and CEO of starcore ore. I press play on theinterview just a reminder: I've already dropped the name. I am the CO founderof Inbox Duncome. We are a virtual assistant company specializing inmanaging your email and also doing your calendar and agmen tasks, but what wetrain and hire for is people who have superior communication and they'regoing to take over everything. That's going on in your inbox or your in boxes,for you personally for your company could be for other members of your team,your staff, you might already have an executive assistant or a personalassistant. We can work in tandem with them, freeing up time in their life, sothey can do more for you as well, so we can work with them with you, with bothof you together in tandem and basically give you two people to in box managerswho become part of your team reply to manage your email, organize yourcalendar, protect your time guard you against time. Wasting meetings, making.Sure everything you need to know is in that calendar making sure the mostimportant emails you need to know about are presented to you, but everythingelse. That's not critical is handled without you, we do the replying. We dothe organization we do, the inputting of information in task management,software working with the rest of your team. So we can keep you out of theloop. That is our goal free. You Up, simplify your life and make it that youhave more hours in your day. Just like a recent cline of ours, Linda artisanof artisan, I accounting she had this...

...great way of describing what in Buxdone has done for her. She said you have rescued my mornings. That meansshe's got her mornings back she's, no longer spending those few hours in themorning, dealing with email and her calendar and so forth. Now she's,actually using that time to create a course because we're the ones dealingwith her email and managing her calendar and so on. Instead, so thatappeals to you had to in box DONEC book a discovery, call and tell us all aboutwhat you need to help with and will assign you a couple of great people,some specialist well trained. We have a very unique hiring system that reallythis is what's our special sauce. We've been doing it for four years now it'slike a ten step process and I think that's what makes the difference sowould love to tell you more about that as well, but that's enough about Inbox,DONEC you're here for the interview with will so, let's dive into thatright now all right! Well, hi! Thank you forjoining me today, so I feel, like I kind of know you a little bit will morethan I probably do, because I listen to you on a lot of podcast and you knowyou show up here and there over many years now. I was actually diving alittle bit more into your bio and you've been doing this longer than Ihave and there's not to any people. I can find who I can say that so that'sreally a yeah. Obviously Starovo is sort of the catchall company that Ithink I first probably heard about you. It may have been I'm not even sure. Iknow I did a deep dive into the story of virtual at one stage and you got ayear ago, yeah that was purely almost like competitor intelligence. I run anemail management company yeah, not exactly the same as virtual, butobviously another virtual assistant sort of thing that I knew Marin becauseshe was in the blogging space before and I had on my podcast and spoke toher a few times just for those listening and obviously there's a wholestory around virtual. It huge story yeah I aract loaded and then youstepped in later on and it took it over. I'm actually kind of curious what it'slike now today and how it's all going and everything was in startups, butmaybe you can give us the best summary of what you're most well known for whatyou're currently working on yeah. You know it's funny. I was talking to mywife last night when we were headed in bed and I've been on. One of ourfounder group talks at start Upom, where we get a group of founderstogether and kind of share. How were all doing and somebody's asked me howlong I've been doing this for- and I said Oh about thirty years and Istopped- and I was like Damn T- I e that's a long time. I our life here youmy tire life it on top of that it's kind of the only job I've ever had. Youknow I started my first company when I was nineteen, which means I mean priorto that I had like you know. I was getting paid per hour for some dumb job,but for like a year and a half, it's not like. I really had any other job.You don't look old yeah. Well, I appreciate that one, but it got methinking. I was like damn like it's been a long time. It's been a long run,and so the backstory is this. I started my first company when I was nineteen.We grew that company very quickly. It was the dawn of the Internet. It wasone of the first web design companies literally building some of the firstweb pages on the Internet and that grew to us six hundred and fifty milliondollar company. We sold that in two thousand and one I then built kind ofan incubator for all my own stuff, where I was building all thesedifferent companies and I'm sure you and I ran into contact with each otherback in the day, then spun out eight companies. Last three revenger fundedcompanies. Some did okay, some didn't do. Okay, terrible idea. If you everwant to go, do it yourself and happy to get into why but about. I don't know,eighteen years into all this, I kind of stopped what I was doing and I saidhonestly, I just want to work on one thing and I want it to be the thingthat I do for the rest of my life. I don't want to make this the means tosomething else. I just want this to be the end, and that was the genesis ofstart upom. I just want to be able to sit around and talk to founders all daylike you and just talk shop all day, and so now that's what I get to do. Iguess to sit around with founders all day, long and talk shop, and that wasthe genesis of ostatok became a company...

Yeah and starve scom is it's like onepart of education? I mean, I remember every time I gothrough, I I feel like okay. I know it's primarily an education company,but then you brought in I mentioned virtual virtual under that brand. Nowit Evanouie Lantra Fundabit, I think clarity might have actually been mygateway to first ever coming across start up, so com change enough bus planand I feel like I want to talk to you about how you even put all thistogether and how it all works, Oget, er. Ah, every time I hear you talk well, Ifeel like. Even if you go back to that very first story, I was reading. I wasblue diesel right now. That was an agency that very early days, onethousand nine hundred and ninety four I'm reading our linked in in caseyou're wondering o ninety net four to December two thousand and two eightyears start when you're nineteen years old, and you just throw up this numbersixty five million dollars- and you say we grew it- I kind of love to like. Even maybe we canstart there and we can move forward through how all these things happen. AnAgency in ninety four obviously would have been new like it's kind of funny.Now it's like the most basic and almost boring business model out there rightor a company online, but back then people needed a website if they evenknew what a website was to be dis, honest, no one, yeah, no, no, theInternet! Yet right! So can you maybe take us through the highlights of that?Sixty five million dollar journey and we you the owner like when he has a ayeah? Did you sell it and pocket sixty five million at the end of all that,like? How do that play I'll? Explain that so what ends up happening is I'min college in Ohio. I grew up in Connecticut, but I came to Ohio to goto school at the Ohio State University and I'm in college for me a year and ahalf and I hate it. I love learning, but I can't stand sitting in a desk andlistening to somebody drown on. I can't listen to myself to not, and so I hadbeen online since one thousand nine hundred and eighty four that's going tosound odd because that's like people real the army serve a well no. I was ona commodore sixty four computer, with a three hundred bod modem plugged intothe back of my thing tying up. My parents line with a bulletin boardsystem so long before ne of the stuff with stuff and as plenty of people thatare ancient relics like me. That can appreciate that entire era and it wasawesome. Well, what was the name of the Bulletin Board? I've read a few booksabout the early sort of built in for S. t was I well, so here is the thing back.Then it was kind of like your personal web page and every one of them ran onyour computer right. So it would be like if everybody had a web pagesitting on their hard drive, and you were calling their computer like onyour phone to access that one page, oh right so back, then it was verysequential. I called your computer and you called my computer. That was it. Itwas like two facts machines, but all the fundamental things that became theInternet like message, boards and uploading and downloading et ce chat,were all happening back then. So I had learned a code not well I'm not thatBrighti early on in my career, just well enough that when the Internet camearound really the web in ninety four, with the advent of the browser, I hadjust been doing it forever, and so I had this idea now that the Internet wasabout to become a thing that I was going to build a company that builtthese web pages and it sounds so dumb right now, but back then there was likeme and ten other dudes doing it at all. Well, he that was it and I remembergoing to my guidance, counselor and I'm so fired up and I'm like, I can't waitto drop out of school and start this company and she's like wait. What, inher mind like dropping in a school, was like the most horrible thing that couldhappen and I was like no I'm going to go start an internet company I'll,never forget her response. She looked at me dead, Pan and she's like what'sthe Internet. There was a time there was a time that no one knew. I rememberyeah and I was running around at all- these companies try and explain to themwhat the Internet was. I wasn't trying to explain to them why we should buildtheir website because there was no one...

...else explaining it to him, but I wasgoing to all these major companies explaining to them fundamentally whatthe Internet was and asking them to use blue diesel to build what wasfundamentally their first websites and so early on. You know we landed bigclients like Master Card like BMW, financial, some pretty big namedclients and we're making no money doing it, because I knew nothing aboutbusiness and I was screwing everything up. How do you land a Master Card? Ican't imagine doing that at nineteen years old, so ve called them on thephone, and I said, can you connect me to the person that uses the wordInternet and I remember I got connected to the one person in all of Master Cardthat knew what the word Internet was, and that was our client. I wow why itwas different cowboy era right, okay and so fears into it. We end up workingwith this small agency in Columbus, Ohio, traditional agency that had beenaround for twenty plus years, and we had this idea what, if we merged theagency they had about fifty people, we had about a dozen people and we coulddo both print offline and digital, which kind of makes sense now but likeback, then it was unheard of right that an agency could do both and for themost part, no one had digital capabilities. So we did three monthslater in one of the biggest flukes and agency history. We end up pitching acompany out of Indianapolis called Eli Lily who, at the time, was bringing adrug to market called PROZAC, and we won one of the most lobsided winds inagency history. A team of fifty people on a two hundred and fifty milliondollar per year account in that launched us into what became about asix hundred and fifty million dollar agency wow. Now it's ringing a bell. Iremember doing my research on you, but a year ago I maybe it was Andrew Warner.I don't know on mix yeah. I love it. I remember hearing the story going. I canimagine obviously the elation of landing a two hundred and fifty milliondollar client, but then agency, businesses fulfill them on Ye. Twentythousand dollar client can be a nightmare, so I can't even imagine didyou suddenly have to hire hundreds of people just to deliver on thatunbelievable? We hired a person every single day. First Year we hired twohundred and fifty people, and this is long before job boards. This is longbefore, like all the ways that we think about scaling a business. Now, there'sno such thing as outside capital for services business even to this day forthe most part, certainly back, then so it was old school. You just had to beable to bill hours and send in voices and hope you collect, but we made itwork. I was twenty two, my partner at the time was twenty six and we justfigured it out and it worked out great, and so we sold the business in twothousand and one so at the point where you got that big client and thenleading all the way to the sale. We you more of a CEO directing how thingsworked or you still, because I can imagine when you start you wereprobably the guy actually building the websites and then you, oh, I was soended up right. You Know is interesting to say that that actually set like aset of things in motion in my career. When I was at the agency, I was doingtechnology marketing and design. So I was coding web pages back when code waslike forty commands in HTML, I was doing design in Photoshop. One Point Ohand I was also doing the marketing, because I really love the marketingside, iditor of sales and everything else, and I loved every aspect of itright. I wasn't like I was. You know more interested in technology than Iwas in design et CE. I loved every aspect of it to this day I don't codeanymore, because codes so specialized. I get involved in every single aspectof our company, I'm our CFO I'm or lead copywriter with two hundred peopleright. So you know it's not like. I've got to wear all these hats. I love it.I love every aspect of it and I'm all in, but at the time I was runningessentially the digital part of the company as Co in my partner Blaine, who,I would argue, did all the real work was the s of the traditional side. Okay,so I feel like I'm asking questions. I...

...know the answer to because I've heardit but the listeners willing to have with the sale of blue diesel. Iremember if I'm correctly, to I'm wrong, but you were like part owner of thenext company got sold into and then that company gup up by another companyfrom Berkley from wrong is that how that story played out so far beyond me?It just so you get a sense. Were we got bought in two thousand and one mypartner stayed on board. I left to go start other companies. My partnerstayed on board, took the company public then got bought back byblackstone. I don't know, maybe you got spun out again somehow it's got likesixteen send people that work there right now and think it's like a sevenor eight billion dollar company. I have nothing to do with it right. I haven'tstepped put in the building in twenty years, so I have nothing to do withwhere it is today, but it was a crazy red. Is it called Lodise? Still? No, NoGod, no, no, nothing to do with it. Okay! So what point did you actuallyexit like it when it got B that out, did you just pick yea? He S was a it. Iwas so ready to start other stuff. I couldn't wait to go. Do something else.I didn't hate the business per se. I couldn't stand working for clients, notmy bag. It was not how I want to operate. I wanted to build product ledcompanies, and I wanted to be my own boss, so to speak, and so so that'swhere I focused so can we time stamped out? How old were you when thathappened, two thousand and one so that would have made me probably two twentysix, twenty seven okay and that exit was that retirement money for you ormore enough for the next few years or where? Where was I at its public andsome of it not some of my actually, I'm not allowed to talk about okay, butpublicly we sold for three hundred and fifty million in cash okay. So I'mguessing at twenty six you're, not thinking well, I'm going to retire onthe beach, no matter how much you made you're like I'm hungry, to do more. Oh,I mean twenty seven right, yeah, so okay super hungry to do more, but thedifference now is you're not starting from scratch. You've had thisexperience, you've got a name having exited a company, yet means investorswould be more interested in you. You probably could put in your own capitalif you wanted to so how did you make the next decision? Besides, knowing youwant to be a product led company rather than a client based company? You knowit's so interesting because that was twenty years ago and again we forgetabout things right, for example back then I essentially wanted to take theagency model of having all of these resources like technology, marketdesign, etcetera and keeping them under one roof, but instead of working forclients, I wanted to work for myself. I wanted to be my own client. I had amillion ideas for companies and I just wanted to basically have a wholeportfolio of companies, and now you see that all the time with likeaccelerators and things like that or you know, incubators would have you,but this was way before any of that before I had a name, the closest youhad back then, and the only analog I could point to was bill gross thatideal Ab, which was so far ahead of his time and what he's done his career hasjust been unbelievable, like what he was able to achieve, but that I kind ofwant to do that. I just want to work on a lot of different things, and again Imentioned this earlier. It's a terrible idea. It sounds like a lot of fun. It'sa terrible idea. So is this: When again, I'm going off you're linked in here, Iknow, unsubscribe came in a little later was that one of those companiesgot spun out or or s that or later okay, and so I had a number of ideas right.One of them wasn't my idea it just something that I actually happened toget involved with, and it kind of picked it up as call it our firstclient and it was a company called swap Olisco, and it just allows you totransfer in and out of car leases. It was incredibly successful, but that waskind of a light ball moment, because within a year and a half of gettinginvolved, there was doing hardly any revenue. When I started, we were doingabout three million dollars of revenue on about a million dollars of netincome, which, back in two thousand and one for like a you know, was a Senili.A market place play there weren't many right. You know, Ebay was just startingto become a thing. craigslist was just starting to become a thing. It was verynew in my life. All moment was well hell if I can do that with one, whatabout doing with ten right and building a portfolio of all these things, and Ithought about it like property, like...

...investing in property and having allthese properties. What I didn't account for was that kind of like having a kid.Would he have one you can kind of handle it right, because all yourproblems are concentrated in that one thing: When you have two: okay, maybeone as a good day one as a bad day, once you have three four five six,there is never a day where you don't have problems like all. You have ourproblems right, we'd, love to believe that these things are just throwingmoney at us the entire time, not the way it works, while one company'sgetting funded the next one's getting shut down, probably within the samehour right it was so many cooks in the kitchen. I was running five or six fulltime companies at that point where I was active, like very active down torunning payroll right across all these companies and it drained the life outof me. It was a great experience because I'll say this. What I got to dowas I got to live five orsix startup lives in parallel. I here's where thatmesses with you like your head a little bit. Imagine you and I are starting acompany and we're out trying to raise Cathal. No one wants to give us money.Well, at the time. That's the only experience of our careers that we'rehaving it's just the outcome of that one thing. Well imagine if we weredoing two three, four: Five: six in the same day that we're going into pitchinvestors and they're just stumping their foot on the door on our way outwe're getting other text on the way out from other investors, saying they caninvest in our other company fast enough m right. It messes with your headbecause like well. Am I good at this, for I terrible at this because, likeit's the same day, I'm having two different outcomes, but what was coolabout that and this kind of led to start upcome? I started to get so muchexperience about how to do so. Many things so differently in so manydifferent outcomes and how your life could go that all my friends, afounders mostly started coming to me, and I started to say hey what aboutthis. What about this? Have you gone through this and I was like I'm goingthrough so many things that I actually have, and so I started really helping alot of folks out. I remember Andrew Warner and I sat down before he wasstarting mix surgy when we were sitting down in Santa Monica together and hewas pitching me on the idea of mixer J and I just had a million ideas rightand I loved it. I thought if I could sit around and talk to guys likeyourself or Andrew all day long about startups. That would be my dream joband that's kind of where things start to develop towards Drudo. So I'm kindof curious, then you were similar to me. I was like a member as a young guygoing. I wish I could kind of be owner of multiple companies and doing thejobs I enjoy in each company for the variety for the exposure to multipleindustries for kind of like diversification, you know diskmanagement, but you know it took me until fifteen years later, where Icould even do that and even then I'm not really doing it, but then I realizeangel investing is kind of like that. A little bit like you're up Aywa, furtherremoved you're not involved with the running of the company. I'm surpriseddid you think of angel investing at all during this time, instead of trying toincubate six seven, eight companies with you being fully involved? Why notjust invest in six, even eight, nine and even twelve, and so on, companiesand just have a light touch with each of them. Well, I probably should havebecause here's what I'd say. I ended up funding all of my own companies rightfor some of them. We raised some extra seed money and there's a whole storybehind that, but for the most part, the plan was just to fund all my own stuffstart up. SCOM was a self funded company and to this day, almost thirtyyears running this, I have never written an angel check. In my life e L,my wife and I do not angel, invest whatsoever. We've been run a funraising platform called funded. We've helped people raise over six hundredmillion dollars in funding. We talk about funding all day long. We do notinvest, and I say we CA my wife and I make those decisions together. We don'tinvest because we can't stand the idea of giving some one else, our money andhoping they make good decisions. That's that's absolute torture. To this thingI don't mind using on myself, but my...

God handing somebody else. My money asmuch as I know, a angel investing is a great thing and I encourage people todo it just personally with the way my personality works. It is a horribleidea. Okay, so a bit of a control freak going there hey well es like a littlebit, yeah. Okay, so I'm curious then, and I'd love to talk more about thestart off story. Before I do that, you have like you're involved with multiplecompanies you're going in one meeting, then getting a text about anothermeeting, good or bad whatever it yes may be. I can see the appeal: everyonehas lots of ideas, you'd love to go after every one of them, but we alsoall have x amount of time and attention in a day- and I know you've alreadysaid this is not the right way to go about this. So you don't advise peopleto follow in your footsteps, but I'm just curious how you even able fromlogistics and energy and attention management, standpoint able to runmultiple companies because they should have all failed or one of them were.Two of them should have been so clearly the winner that you would have beenlike. What am I doing? I'm going to put my Anagan n t e the winner. You knowfeed the growing child and let the other ones die it's a bad analogy, butbasically you know that's right. It tends to work with business. Did thatnot happen for you or here's? What the BET is. Here's overbody thinks it goes.People analogize it to be in a casino, let's say in Black Jack and makingmultiple bets and hoping that one of them hits right. That analogy breaksdown in a few areas. First, in order for me to make multiple bets, it takesthe same amount of time right so imbedding. I there's not a time elementright. Second, in order for the best to work, they're, not bet's per se. Inorder for a bet to work, it takes seven to ten years to make a company greatright. When you're at the Black Jack Table, it doesn't take seven to tenyears to place all of those bets right, I'll give an example at the time. Thisis really what threw me right around the time I was doing. The incubator,Dharmasa who's, the founder of hub spot, had been running an online communitycalled on startups. It actually still runs t to the state, it's actually agreat online community and Darmans, and I would talk about online communitiesand things like that, and I remember at some point he said: Hey I'm going tostop doing this. I'm going to go. Do something called hub spot, and Iremember thinking about the time that I had no idea what his company did. Itdidn't make any sense to me doesn't matter, but I kind of just tracked whatthey were doing from the sidelines and then I remember him raising money fromSequoia and next thing I know they're filing to go public and it was at thatmoment. This is like seven years later, where I'm like. You know what Darmastarted the same time I did, except he focused on one thing. He did thatreally really really well and he's filing to go public. That's when I knewI'd screwed this all up, because by splitting my focus I couldn't createmore time. So let's say I'm working sixteen hours a day which I was and youshouldn't do, let's say I'm working sixteen hours a day. The moment I takeon a second project, I can't put sixteen hours a day into one thingagain. This is where the betting analogy breaks down. I need everysingle second of those hours to focus on one thing in hopes to have a hit themoment. I split the moment. I split two ways. Three ways: Etcetera. All I'mdoing is taking the resources away from, what's supposed to be successful, tobegin with, I'm at sure reducing my likelihood of success, which was whereI missed completely. Okay, so you're kind of validating atthat, as we all say, is the truth as exciting as it can seem, it's reallybest to focus on one. Yet today, if I look at Starosta, it doesn't look likeone. It does look like multiple, but I'm sure you've evolved a differentkind of framework for making that work and that guessing it's not you. If Ilook at these companies, I'm not going to see, will shrouder as the CEO,virtual and launch rock and plunderbund clarity, and I one right now there's astructure behind it all. So I love to talk about how then of all but oneother question, or maybe can you summarize all these companies that youthen realized? Okay, you were diverting your time across. One you mentioned wasa lease company. Then I know I was just...

...talking about unsubscribe unsubscribe,you yeah, which getting rid of annoying junk mail around two thousand and ten.Could you just list off every on of everything, but as many of thosecompanies that you are kind of involved with and also is it a case of you justselling them and finding buyers or just closing them down like how do you stopdoing all the things you were doing? There's two stories there I'll give youthe short version, I'll list them backward. If I can even remember atthis point sure the last one we started was called UNSUBSCRIBE, I had this ideaof how to get off junk mail. This is long before the span button existed onGmail and I enlisted the help of a friend of mine, Jamie Semenov, who wenton to start ring the doorbell company, so Jamie and I started unsubscribedtogether with an another partner, Josh Roth, who also is the CT overing,that's the one we raised money overnight and we started to scale thebusiness and realized it wasn't going to be the business. We thought it wasand we ended up selling it off right. So, in that case, heading eighteenmonths from inception to sell off, it wasn't a huge exit, but it was enoughto get us out of it. Okay, prior to that, I had started a company called aFord Com, which was essentially a firm. So this is, I started in two thousandand seven, two thousand and eight exactly what you think of firm is iswhat a Ford. It was right just too far ahead of its time by now pay later, forthose who are not familiar with the firm yeah and it was high risk consumerfinance, at the height of the financial crisis, not the best time to be raisingmy timing, cimeter, and so that, before that was a company called got cast thatdoes casting for television online. It was at the dawn of reality, televisionand it was before social networking a whole thing. I mean a whole whole thingthere, that's what brought me to Los Angeles Amazing Times prior to that wascoming called Bispam, which we still own, which actually became part of thestart. UPS COM framework boy, I'm probably missing one anyway. Here'swhat happened, though, here's what happened at first we're starting it.It's exciting. We can fund our own deals, so there's really no friction toget these things started. I hire a bunch of my friends from my past life.It's awesome years go by and I'm stacking on companies and stacking onresponsibilities. Now those companies have staffs and responsibilities andpay roll to make and all these things fast forward to. I want to put the yearon it call two thousand nine two thousand and ten, no two thousand, andeven I'm just about to get married. We just had our daughter now, my oldestdaughter must have been two thousand and twelve. We just launched what wouldbecome start upso. I just got married. I just had a daughter, I'm at work withmy friends at lunch and I don't know what it was, but I remembertalking to them and I'm kind of spacing out a little bit and I'm like guys. Idon't feel right and I said I'm going to drive home like I do. I don't knowwhat's wrong, I didn't think much about it at the time I have my car. I livelike five minutes away, I'm driving home. I call my wife and I was likesweter. Something is wrong. I don't know what's happening and just as Isaid that my heart stopped, like literally stopped, not figurativelystopped, like my heart actually stopped while driving on a highway back to myhouse, sweet right, I'm thirty, seven years old. Well, I recovered. I somehowdidn't go off the highway. Like I got an idiot, so I just drove home likeright. I end up crawling out of my car. I end up laying on the living roomfloor and I'm staring at the ceiling, and I call my friends I'm my guyssomething's definitely off. You guys have to come get me. I didn't know whathappened. They come get me because my friends are idiots. They take me to aminute clinic which is like you know your local doctor to see if you have acold or something like that, I get there the ekg me and he like you, needto be like the ICU like right now, like you're, basically having a heartproblem like a serious hard issue. Next thing I know I'm in an ambulance- andthis is alwit like an hour of me saying: Hey, don't feel right and I'm in theICU, I'm in the icy for two days right like staring at the ceiling, I juststarted a family. I have no idea what's happening. Doctor comes in after allthese tests. Finally diagnoses me and said you had a massive anxiety attack.I didn't know. I had anxiety. Well...

...right- and he said look this is this-is the whole point of what I said is not a good idea. He said you've beenrunning your body as hard as you can for as long as you can, you haven'ttaken any breaks, you haven't processed stress or any life events etc, and yourbody just gave up on you. It just basically said no more funny side notes to that after thathappened after he that event happened. I started telling my friends my I foundher friends like guys, you're not going to lieve what happened to me. Like youknow, I had this whole event. Every single one of them was like Oh yeah,that happened to me too. It happened to you too. How did this not come up andat the time this is such a funny thing at the time it wasn't ok to betransparent and open about these issues. We've come a long way in ten yearsright. I can talk about this stuff openly on your podcast. Wasn't the waybefore I'd never heard people talk about it, and that was the culminationof me running my body. So hard for so long without repreat right without anyoption to reset and that's what I knew I need to change everything at thatpoint. I dropped out of everything I was doing and just stopped for like twomonths and did nothing whatsoever just to like get my help on board. It wasbad yeah, so many thoughts, I'm thinking about Ryan Leve. I don't knowif you're familiar with him, but his YEP story similar, ended up in hospitaland had to like stop everything. I'm lucky similar story where I had panic,attacks and anxiety. My early S. Yes, I was running a business, but because ofthat I don't think I ever like I was. I was aware of my body's reaction tothings so I never did sixteen hour days. I always had a sense of rest work,Rasor, otherwise I'll go far having yeah anxiety and panic attack. So backyeah. It's such a common story. Sadly, but you know it is great. We can talkabout it. So maybe take us for then so two months of refreshing, you're stillcontemplating you've got a child coming marriage. You never do yeah. Allwritings plus you like, do you just go? Okay, I'm going to sell everything downto one thing like or you said start ups was just in its first version, then. Sohow did it Writin you? So we were looking this launch. Our next company,within the incubator, called Funda, which was going to be equity, crowd,funding, right, circe, two thousand and eleven early again to earle witheverything. Well, I know right right and at the time my thought was becausewe learned a lot from Bispam, which was an online business playing tool that noone knew how to start companies, and so I started to kind of build on thisthesis a bit that Hey. You know what all my friends keep coming to me andthey're smart and they want to start companies, but they don't know whatthey're doing and they can't it's not their fault. How do you know any ofthis stuff? How do you know how fundraising works or how customeracquisition works if you're an engineer right like it's so non intuitive and Isaid so, you've got millions and millions and millions of people allover. The world they all want to start something and put their passion intosomething, but they don't know how I can help all of them like I can givethem the answers to the test. I can teach them how all of this works, andso my first attempt at it really was with fundales to teach people thefundraising side and what we learned is kind of funny. Was Everyone wanted? Iwanted money, they knew they needed money, but no one understood what itmeant to raise capital right. I didn't understand how put together pitch deck.They don't understand what traction meant. You can't just have an idea andpeople throw money at you. It was a whole line of things, and so afterabout a year and a half of running that we kind of zoomed out- and we said youknow what the problem isn't funding again, the problem continues to be. Noone knows how to start a business. To begin with, so we're going to build amuch bigger vision to teach people how to build companies right from themoment they have the idea to the moment they launched here's. The problem withthat, in order to do that, you can't just be education, you can't just betools, you have to have all of these pieces together and there's wholecompanies both around just the pieces.

So we made an entire road map of allthe places where people get stuck. So we said, okay, people get stuck atlaunch, they get stuck on planning, they get stuck on funding they getstuck on. You know you name it and then we went out and bought the companiesthat had done a great job of solving that part of the problem. That's whyall those products are there they're all part of a unified road map? Okay,so now is my chance to ask you: How does this work? Do you? You buy acompany, let's take any of them. I know so. You had bus plan and fun dableinternally, already from your previous incubator project, correct companiescontinued those we are now. Those two were running with their own, like CEOSand team, or were you still working them like? How does that work? All ofthose are just products, O there's no hierarchy or reporting structure basedon any of those okay, so I get up in the morning as the Co and I think aboutall of them like quite deliberately right. Our customer service teamhandles all of them. Our dead team handles all of them and they're allmature products, so it's very different than if we were starting em all fromscratch. Okay, so then, for example, with clarity, I know you bought thatDan Martel, I think, was who you an get up, that one from that's a mentoring,sort of a vice service. Maybe that one is an example. How do you buy that andthen insert it into this umbrella organization that you're runningwithout Dan necessarily being there, because I'm assuming he left Ye get aexit? So how does the transition happen well? Part of it is if the CEO or thekind of the existing team is so built into the product. Sometimes you can'tbuy it because you actually can't pull it back out. For example, Dan Martelright now is running his SASS Academy. Where teaches people had to grow? CouldI buy that right now from Dan in extract Dan, maybe kind of a sort? Abut not really, it's not really a stand alone. Piece of software, where T isclarity is so. In that case you buy it. You've got the code, you've got thebrand. You've got the customers whether Dans Rung and I'm running it. No onereally cares right, you know so that fits if you get something on Wan trucksame thing, right, you've got hundreds and hundreds of thousands of sites thathave been launched off of Lan track. No one really cares. You know whetherJames on debt, while the founder, is behind her or not not knocking Jamiesaid I'm just saying good by him. That is portable enough. Okay, so I mean Iknow I run in box, done it's pretty much an agency and now virtual samestory. I can't imagine you taking something like virtual or for my owncompany, and just I mean you could take the team and replace myself and my cofounder as leaders of the team and the marketing department yea, and I thinkit would. You know be some teething like that, but you know it's funny. Isay this and I feel like on the surface. It sounds like you're doing the samething again well, you're putting yourself at the top of multiple thingsand yes, they all connected this idea of being an entrepreneur and running abusiness, but selling virtual system services versus mentoring from otherentrepreneurs versus crowd funding. Those are different, verticals withdifferent marketing channels, different messages, unless, of course, everyonediscovers start up to com, and then you tell them about these ancillaryservices. That makes sense to me what I somehow think: that's not the only waythese companies have grown. Are there other leaders involved, or is it stillthe will show on every single company? We've got a great team. You know we gottwo hundred people on staff, so you know we got plenty of resources behind.This were a very flat organization. We don't believe you know it's. It's me.I've got maybe the half dozen folks that report to me and that's it then,and every ole reports to them. That's it. There are no other hierarchies intheir organization. We intend to keep it that way. Our goal is always to hireas few people as possible. People talk about growing and adding staff. If wego from two hundred to three hundred, it's a failure in our strategy. Youknow we're one of those. Those companies that feel like fewer peopleis better and his workforce doesn't Work Peru, but the difference here is Iwake up in the morning and I work with one team. I work with one piano. I workwith one focus around growing one...

...company which essentially startups back.Then it was not that I had six different teams. I had six differentsets of investors. I had six different P nls that were very, very differentand I was in totally different industries in one meeting I was talkingabout high risk, consumer finance and the next meeting I was over at Viacomtalking about casting for a show right like you, couldn't have been in it'sthe more different industries in the same day right and it's just so hard tokeep track of them. Keep on top of H, m etcetera, fascinating, if I'm beinghonest, but I'm good with that. I want to run star up for the rest of my liferight. This is all I want to do and that changes everything, because thetrajectory isn't. How do we get in and out of this as fast as possible? It's,how do we build something that we really care about, that we can workafter the rest of our lives and be so happy about it. Okay, make sense stillfeel like I need another hour to kind of like ask you all the questions aboutthe nats and buts of this, how it works yeah. We ask a couple, though: okay, soYouu, wake up in the morning, and you see, we've got this many clientsrunning in virtual. This many mentoring calls have been booked from clarity youthis many campaigns are running on fundales to try and get funding fortheir start up ideas, I guess with the other ones. You know you've got X,number of people subscribing to Sass platforms and so on, so it might be abit simpler. How do you stop and say? Okay, I'm going to focus my energy on amarketing campaign to get more people to use clarity versus I'm going todecide to do that for virtual or any of the other brands under the company, oreven talk to the people whose responsibility is to do that. How doyou make it work from a operation side? You know what are the things I learnedwhen working across lots of companies. You know what we did at the first timewas that you had so much duplication of effort, and you had so many resourcesthat I would argue were wasted. I'll give an example: let's say: You've gota marketing person working on a relatively small product like a subfive million dollar company right, you just having you know, grown it pastthat point. They only have so many resources right at their disposal. Atthat very moment they can only do so. Many things right. So by definition,you have a lot of wasted time. Let's say they're managing the paper clickcampaign. What's the only campaign they have so like they're spending all dayon it. When you have three other ones to manage, you spend half the day on itor a third of the day on it right. You basically condense your time. We dothis across the whole organization. We basically take everything that we doand we use every second of our time in the best possible way and I'll say thisand we do it in eight hours or less a day right. No one works more than eighthours right. There's no version of me back in the ICU, because I'm allstressed out, because I'm working sixteen hour plus a day doesn't happen.No one works weekends right. We are incredibly efficient because we look atall the stuff that in the past, where people's time were kind of wasted- andwe just got rid of it- it's amazing and I can imagine you can have specialistsacross the whole company so, like you said, with the petrolic person, they'reonly doing paper, click look at l, a brands right Yep at one time, Yep which,which is very close to home, because right now I go in and I'm the onemanaging paper click going. I'm I'm not the one. I should be doing this becausethis is not my skill set, so yeah yeah hitting it's hiding me that one. Sowhat's the future for startups outcome, like you know, you said you want do tothe rest of your life. So it's not like a case of growing it exiting IPO. Or isit look? I don't hate money right, but that's not what we're focused on at theend of last year, we rolled out a really important kind of nextgeneration of our service, and I think you'll appreciate this. It's calledfounder groups and what we do is we take eight person, cohorts of foundersand we bring them together monthly and we dig really deep into what all theirissues are. What we learned was we got one point, two million startups in theplatform that we're really good at teaching people how to build startups,but we needed to be good at teaching people how to be founders, and it turnsout. This is an incredibly lonely journey, so we built this servicefounder groups and the folks that are in the service get paired up with otherpeople in their industry and in...

...location or stage rather and we'remeeting monthly. It's amazing to see like all the stuff, that's coming outof people's heads and the honesty and the transparency. It's awesome, but Ibring it up to say it's also the fastest growing product we've everbuilt. So we have the advantage of having this massive massive user basethat when we introduce a new product like founder groups, we go rexponentially faster because our customer acquisition is inherentlybuilt in okay. Just I'm curious right now, when you say you have that large,an audience and you've locked something new, like founders groups. Is it a casethat just like I used to do I'd, send some emails to my newsletter and say:We've got this thing for sale? Is it as simple as that or is it more complexkind of where it starts? Yeah, okay, cool you're, a content, marketingbusiness to build an audience, and then you sell services and Ye. You Bet, youknow, you bet that is important, yeah, the nuts, okay, interesting so manyplaces I can go with this will. I know we've cut in up fifteen minutes hereand I I want to know how, because I feel like the the mental strain ofthinking about all the different things you could do. I know I do this and I'mony I'm running. Basically, two companies really only one, but I stillhave a coaching business. I have angel investments late their hands off. Ihave a solified my bill, which is a business, but it's you know it's solarye just put things in the ground and it collects. Energy is not thatcomplicated, but I know this from in box done and I sit there going. Okay,like you, said finite resources, certain growth goals. I know how to domarketing activities, but yet I'm still overwhelmed, because I know I should bedoing maybe growing the list or expanding pc even there within P, PC,there's layers of you know getting all the key words. All the potential targetmarkets like go for long story short, there's, always a never ending supplyof things to do, especially from the marketing side of the business, and itsounds like you've worn that hat a lot. The marketing hat and you've grown suremany companies of clearly very different industries, song verydifferent things. You've made most of them gained somelevel of traction froma three million dollar company to a company that you sold for three a D.fifty, if I'm correct, remembering there yep what has worked for youdeciding how to spend your marketing budget, your marketing energy, amarketing time, and do you find there's a universal answer for that? Given now,you've had so much experience, or is it really very unique to each company andeach person? I think this answer may surprise you. I think the reason peopledon't get marketing right, isn't because they spent it in Seo versus P.PC versus social would have you. I think it's because they don'tunderstand how long it takes to get marketing right. Marketing is a very,very, very long term investment right. Here's how we think about especiallyfounders right, because you know we're silly about this- there used to be theold idea that I'm going to build a landing page and I'm going to run P pcagainst it and I'm going to know within a month right whether or not this things a a viable product right. I've built a lot of products over a long period oftime, not to mention launch national brands. No one in their right mindwould ever say that that's a viable strategy for marketing, okay, I'll takethat further, that's just a month! Imagine all the products that you useright now right or any of the products that you use. You look around yourhouse. You, Lo Karin your office, built within the last thirty days, probablynot because products take a very, very,very long time to build. Those brands take a very long time to build right.So within marketing, where we tend to make mistakes, is we make good bethssolid bets in the right areas and we don't give them any time to grow? It'sthe equivalent of going out planting all our seeds and then trying toharvest them the next day, Mike what the hell you know you're. None of this grew it's like nokidding, that's not how this works. So for us, when we look at our marketing,we look at okay, we're going to make this investment it's going to take twoto three years for yield. Now I don't mean none of it pays back right. Whatwe're saying is if we make an so...

...investment if we make a p PC investmentit'll, take that long to go into the market to make mistakes, to keeprefining into condition the market which the part people don't understand.If I run and linked in at and someone sees the ad and they don't click, howmany ads get clicked the first time, people see them hardly any right by theway. You need lots and lots and lots of impressions which takes lots of time inorder to build up in order to be successful with their marketing. Sowhat I've found in its painful, if I'm being honest, is that good marketingrequires a tremendous amount of long term commitment and most people justdon't have it m great answer. I love that at the same time, it's also like,Oh my God, so much work, not much work. Can we make that alittle bit practical or maybe a specific example? So maybe even yourcurrent version of like you're rolling out this new, a person group profoundlyfounder groups around the groups and it's obviously early day, so you'rethinking three years campaigning for that? Do you just start with okay?First, we go to our newsletter existing audience and let people know it existsthat will get our first clients. We can see how it's being received and thenokay, it's working. Let's scale us up, let's run a paper click campaign. Let'sstart writing articles. Let's look for joint venture partners. I could keeptalking about you. Let's get on podcast and talk about it. You know I can go onand on and on. How do you think about this from the action steps you takenext? So here's what happened? Then I'll lay it out exactly how it works,so you can kind of get the first hand feel. So. A year ago we launched theBeta version, the basically MV of founder groups, and so at that pointall we have to do is we have to find eight people that are in the sameindustry at the same stage that we can get into a group that we kind of signup around the same time. So the first person isn't waiting two months to getplaced in a group and we need to get them on the phone, so we can kind ofbet them a bit on board it. So we get them in the right group, and that takesa little bit of time, but we need to do it fairly quickly, cool quick way to dothat. Let's send a million emails to our list right, so we don't do it allat once, because I viously don't want to get overwhelmed, but you send it inbatches. You get a whole bunch of responses where we get on the phonewith a bunch of people, and this all takes a bunch of time and we say wow. Alot of people are interested in this product. Awesome. Well, guess what wecan only send to those people to three times through the newsletter. Thenewsletter is a cool way to get some initial interest right, but all thosepeople are going to sign up for they didn't right. After that we got to gorecurring. Well, where do you go to get the most number of qualified peoplethat are self identified as founders? You go to link it. It's the one placewhere nobody lies about what their title is. Maybe somebody does, butgenerally not, there's almost no spam relative to gether social networks, andyou can target with people with founder in their name. Guess what the prod iscalled founder groups. We want founders, go to Linton Right, see hop on Linton,which is crazy, expensive and you start running campaigns and people startcoming through. You start to realize wow, it's crazy, expensive, no big dealright and you get people on the phone et Cetera. You spend a little bit,maybe spend ten thousand the first month, which is a lot of money. Morethan most startups can afford. You spend less. If you know your mileagemay very then you spend twenty the next month, thirty, the next month for tothe next month, and you just keep ramping up from there, but in that casewe're leaning in with our mailing list and then we're kind of picking up withsomething that's sustainable like a paper clip campaign, but we're notstarting off the hundred thousand dollars a month in our paper HoodCampaign, we're leaning into it. We could afford to right now that we're sorich, but we can afford to, but we won't want to learn along the way,because we need time no matter what okay and then repeat repeat, as youkeep finding new channels and devote more budget. Is that you but you ban,and so what we like to do. If we find a channel, that's working, we like tobeat it to death. We like to exhaust it right before we jump into another,because one of the problems that we've run into over the years is that we trysocial and it doesn't work immediately.

This goes back to the long terminvestment, and so then we jump over to Google right and that doesn't work. Sowe jump over to Linkedin and that doesn't work you know, and so what welearned was that, no matter what we pick, it's not going to work the way wewant to do the first time we've got to learn a little bit. We got to giveourselves a little bit of time. So if we're going to pick, Google Edwards isthe strategy. It's got to be the strategy for six months to a yearbefore we go pick something else by forcing ourselves into one category, westart to learn all the nuances and guess what nine times out of ten thefirst few months, our total failure and we would have jumped out of it thinkingit doesn't work and it's like months, seven that we start to see that itworked and we're like Holy Shit. We'd have overlooked this entire thing. HadWe not you know stuck with it, yeah yeah, it's hard to believe that whenyou're in month six and is over, so all that money yeah last two minutes herewill my show is actually called best o the capital now- and I kind of askedthis question frequently: I'm not sure how you're going o Anser this actuallybecause you've had a big engst early on multiple small ex it's along the way,so I feel like you've faced the decision of what do I do with mycapital. How do I invest my money? Everyone answers this differently.We've got people put in Crypto in very stable Y T, fs they buy and sole talksthemselves. Some say: Hey. I bought myself property. You know I did have aspurs and bought some fast cars or traveled around the world. You sound sofar. Maybe you I'm reading into this too much as a conservative kind of guy.When you get your kicks from what you're doing with start upcome and allthe other entrepreneurs, how do you invest all your money? That's notactive that you want to sort of work without you being involved, I'm a veryconservative investor. I manage all my own money and I'm very conservative andhere's the way I look at it. Making a lot more, won't change my life, butlosing it will ruin me right, and so, if my liquid net worth doubles, it'snot going to change anything and is not that like it, because I'm so fabulouslywealthy it's because there does come a threshold. We're buying more shit,doesn't really buy you anymore right and a lot of we can go on forever onthis one, but a lot of people because they never get to that threshold. Theydon't really understand that. I was able to make some money early in mycareer, so I kind of got to play it all out. I kind of got to fast forward tothe end of how life works and I got there. I was I come it on as big a dealas I thought. For example, my wife and I the last house we had was in BeverlyHills, right E. Think Beverly Hills. Oh my God. You know so fancy and it's kindof fancy, but after a few years of being there, we looked around we'relike this. Okay, it's like going on a really nice vacation and when you firstget there at the resort, you're like, Oh, my God, this place, amazing, it'sthe best ever and then, after like day, seven or ten right to we got to to thepool again right like I, just everything has a shelf life right. Sofrom a lifestyle standpoint. We don't really need that much. We just don'twe're, not conservative. We just kind of played out all the other choose yourown adventure parts of life and they just didn't bias what you thought theywould, and so we just didn't need it. So conservative in terms of investingjust means gold like what is he to no? No, so we're like index fun. Folks, youknow, if we're seeing you know, eight to twelve per year, a twelve percentreturn or good okay cool, so you kind of put in there. You don't look at itand you're good to go pretty much yeah and I look in in the US markets Gushand the last year. Even if you went in a sleepy index fund, you were makingthirty percent to Asan. So you know it's it cozy wrong. Yeah! All right, Iknow you got to go, will so start up calm, any other places you want to sendpeople find me on twitter. I respond to everything I'm at will: Shuter Wyl, Sch,Rotar and one thing I always tell people in the podcast. I am the easiestperson in the world to reach. Nobody believes me every thinks that's hard,I'm will it start up com. If you email me and you have a problem withsomething something you help with, I will help you right. That's my a wholereason for being. I love talking to...

...founders. If there's anything I can do,I will do it for you and again, I'm always around so hit me up. Find Me.Let me help that's awesome. Well and that's how I got well in the show. Isend him a tweet and he said yes, so you appreciate it. I'm easy keep up thegood work well and- and obviously I hope to stay in touch great thanks forhaving. I hope you enjoyed that interview withWill Schroder what a multifaceted guy I'm just amazed at how many differentbusinesses he was involved with and the audacity of trying to grow so manycompanies at once. I have trouble running multiple marketing campaigns atlents and he was running multiple companies with all the different thingslike investing growing a team hiring building the technology. It's justmakes me feel stressed thinking about, and he was the one doing it all. Soit's not surprising that he ended up having a bit of a bit of a melt downwith the panic attacks there and that, obviously, as you said, is not anuncommon story, and I'm glad that he shared that, because I think it'simportant for people to know entrepreneurs are not super human. Youhave to look after yourself, you have to think about you as a human being whoneeds rest. Who needs to have parts of your life that are not your business?That's why I love promoting in box done because we help you get time back. Wehelp you find time to spend. You know time with your family, friends and restand so on. So hopefully you're thinking along those lines too, and I hope youwere inspired and excited and check out star up Com and what will is doingthere before you end up this podcast make sure you do subscribe. If you havenot already hit the plus button or the subscribe button of the Follow Buttonand you'll get all my episodes as I release them. You can also go to myblog where the podcast is hosted and if you had to Yarro dot blog hit thepodcast tab, you'll see the episodes there and all the subscribe links aswell and you can dive into the back catalog. So if you see an interviewwith someone you really like- or maybe you have an interview, you found inthere- that you think a friend or a colleague- or maybe you know a son or adaughter or a niece or a nephew, someone who's a potential founder orcurrently is running their own company. They would definitely benefit fromsubscribing to vested capital as well as well as anyone intrest in how peopleare growing their capital because we don't have just start up founders likewell. I've got Angel Investors on here, we've had professional poker players,also venture capitalists and property investors and we've got all kindsoffrent people coming up as well, so it's good to hear different ways.People make cash flow and how they invest that money to grow it over time.All you have to do is head to invested capital, podcast com or share that linkwith any of them any of your friends and colleagues, and they can subscribeas well. Okay, that's it! For me, my name is Yaro and I will talk to you onthe very next episode. Bye, bye, O.

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