Vested Capital
Vested Capital

Episode 24 · 1 month ago

(EP24): Gabriele Musella, CEO And Co-founder Of Venture Backed Coinrule, Automated Crypto Trading

ABOUT THIS EPISODE

Gabriele Musella is a well-educated, well-traveled, co-founder of Coinrule.com, a company where you can build or copy sets of rules for automatically trading cryptocurrencies.

The company recently raised $3M+ from MKB Bank, Urban Innovation Fund, Zilliqa and many Business Angels (Kayak Co-founder, EightSleep Founder).

Before that they also successfully ran a crowdfunding campaign on Seedrs, providing funds which helped them to navigate the pandemic when capital briefly dried up.

During this podcast we dive into Gabriele's past, which is full of education (London School of Economics, MIT, Harvard), travels throughout Europe and the USA for various jobs (Nokia, Loyds Bank) and three previous startups before the current one, Coinrule. The most notable was Paylinko, a fintech payments app.

Gabriele has certainly lived a full life so far, and it was exciting to piece together all the highlights that came before his current project and then also spend some time talking about how to build a Crypto trading platform.

Enjoy the podcast.

Yaro

Podcast: https://www.yaro.blog/pod/

Blog: https://www.yaro.blog/

Hey there, this is Yaro and welcome tovested capital Episode Number Twenty Four featuring my guest GabrielleMucella, the Co founder and CEO of coin rule that the capital is a podcastabout how people make money and put their capital to work. I interviewstart up founders Angel Investors, venture capitalists, Crypto and StockTraders, real estate investors and leaders in technology today. My GuessGabrielle is the CO founder of a basically a platform where you can dotrading on autopilot at simplest way. To put it so, you can set up a bunch ofrules to connect, with whatever kind of exchange your used to buy and sellCrypto, whether it's finance or coin base, and then you use coin rule to setup rules for when you might want to buy or sell an individual. You know tradingpair, so you might be buying Bitcoin and you you tell coin rule. I want tobuy bit Colin when it hits this price. You know, with this kind of volumetrigger the by and same with the other way trigger a cell at the other end, soyou can create kind of like automated robots that will buy and sell for younow. The starting point with a platform like coin rule, is to just learn how touse it play around with the demo mode. You can do experiments basically justto understand it, but then it gets really sophisticated when you caneither take a template that the guys that con will have built. So they allowyou to essentially copy the system they've created, they have a person intheir team that helps design those, those basically bots for you, and thisis coming in the future. I feel, but it's also kind of there ready whereother people are setting up their own custom rules. So people are moreadvanced, more skilled, they're building out their own set of rules,they're, basically building a trading robot and eventually you'll be able tocopy what they're doing as well so copy trading up. Other investors VI theplatform and is anyone who knows cryptocurrency if you're looking intothe really highly volatile alt coins, you know all the different types ofcoins that are not so well known, kind of up and coming projects. Those onescan jump a hundred percent in a day. Some of them have even seen go up threethousand percent in one day. Of course, they also can lose that much as wellthat fast. So with the platform like this, as you could potentially automatethe buying and selling of a whole range of different trading payers, differentcryptocurrency tokens and the idea is, you know to capitalize on those gains.Obviously, investing is challenging. There's no guarantees. You know. CoinRoll as a platform does not guarantee any kind of result or any kind ofoutcome. Today, though, the whole point of this interview is a to introducethis idea of what coin rule does and talk about how Gabrielle and his Cofinders built it. But it's also very much about Gabrielle himself. SoGabrielle is an interesting guy you'll hear during this interview. He doeshave an Italian accent, so it might be a few parts. He talks quite quick. Iknow I got lost a couple of times where I didn't quite understand what he said,but I was very much able to keep the story on track and understand the mostimportant aspects of where we were going and what he was building. Insummary, he has done a lot of education in his past. He started more in thedesign space he was interested in. Like you know, city design. He then gotinterest in business which led him more to you know, interface, design, onlineinterfaces in particular, and that's kind of the career he then entered on.He had a job early on an Nokia. He traveled around Europe a lot either forstudies or taking on different jobs and then eventually to because you ran somestart ups as well and he was indifferent accelerators. He there's somuch to talk about with his interview. It really went over a lot of differentcountries and certainly on different topics. I guess in some way the bestway to look at Gabriel's life he's one part. Academic he's one part workingfor other companies in interface design. Another part starting startups he's hadthree star ops before he got into con rule, so we hear about all three ofthose different startups and how they connected the lessons. He learned allthe way to the point where, finally, he meets his co founders, they go to anaccelerator and Budapest. They build the first version of coin rule and thenthey actually need to get funding. So we talk a little bit about a crowdfunding campaign. He did when the company almost went under due to Ovidand then all the way up to today, with what they're working on and whatthey're building for the future. So few big story, fun interview, I reallyenjoyed talking to Gabrielis quite passionate as a lot of Italians are soI really enjoyed as vibe. I think you will to yeah it's a great story of a UPAND COMING CRYPTO currency in text start up so coin. Rolo is the place togo and speaking of start ups. Of course, the sponsor at today's episode is mystartup in Boxton, which is a human being. Has a service, so basically weprovide a human being too, in fact, two assistants who will take over managingyour ema for you. So if you're drowning in too many messages in your email inbox or your social media in boxes or any maybe helped us in boxes. You canput in much like coin rule where they have a a technology power, but we dothe same thing with your email, with a...

...human being powered service, naturallyemail very complex. It's not something where you just want to hand it over toanyone. We've got highly trained specialized assistance that focus onreplying to other people's emails and not just the act of replying but theact of learning how to understand the person we're replying for so we have toreally study you study what you do study your role, stud of your bigpicture, goals, study. What your kind of interface is right now, with yourwhat you're doing, how you're communicating, how you're sendingmessages, how you write them, who are the most most important people in yourlife in your in Your Business? All of that, your assistance will learn andthen get better at over time, so they can take you out of the Inbox, so theycan reply to whatever it is thousand nine hundred and ninety five, evenninety nine percent of your emails, and that can lead to a lot of freedom foryou. So if you're spending too much time in your in boxes, if you'restressed out, you need simplicity, you want to gain back hours a day. Considerin box done com. We can assign you to assistance within the next few weeksand we'd love to help you go to in box, stop in Buxton Com. That's in box doNECO book a discovery call, so we can learn more about your needs all right.That's it from our sponsor. Now we're diving into the interview withGabrielle Mucella, the Co founder and CEO of Coin Rule. All Right! This is Yaro. Thank you forjoining us today. I'm excited to talk to my guess: Gabrielle MucellaGabrielle. Thank you for joining me. Hi Yar Hi, so Gabriel, you're, the founderof coin rule, definitely want to talk about that and obviously a lot of yourhistory. I actually made excited to talk to you because you're in thecrypto space, obviously it's a hot space right now, a lot of differentcompanies starting up, but a lot of lack of knowledge. I feel in the spaceas well. So I definitely want to talk to you about that in particular, whatyou guys are doing with coin rules, so you're helping people with the tradingaspect, in particular automated trading. So before we dive into your backgroundin history, would you mind just telling us you know what exactly is coin ruleand why did you create it yeah sure so, can rule helps with all investor totomade the investment, so we basically keys automatic capabilities for tradingto normal people. Like me, an you, we came up with this come three years ago,because it was a big problem that we were trying to solve ourselves me andmy co founders and that's you know there was so nothing like that on themarket. So we decided to create a company- okay, yeah, I'm very curiousabout that. But before we dive in the corner, I would like to kind of look ateverything that came before it. I was diving into your linkedin and you havea lot of education every how so you studied a lot. I'm seeing Harvard I'msaying MIT, I'm seeing Laden school economics, I'm seeing Palette H, Nicolin Milano. You were also in Helsinki, so you were you like to study what whattell me? What was all that about yeah? I spend a lot of money on education.That's right since I started school even at high school. I was alwaysworking and studying at same time, so for me, studying kids in the theory andall the structure that he that intellectual part and then apply thatinto my dely work. So if I don't study, I cannot function basically, even now,I'm studying French- and you know I always need to have that intellectualkind of channel going on. Okay. So with all those degrees and qualifications,it sounds like you were doing it like. You said because you like to study, butwas there I guess an en gain. Did you study specific subjects because youwanted to become a something after it or not? I felt alone with the designwhen I was really young. My man thing was the sun is interface and herexperiences and back then, in fifteen years ago, was not something that tostraightforward. So I took it to architecture, you know product design,industrial design and then eventually ended up at the media. Lab in El sit inFillan. When I did the my change program and I was like okay, this iswhat I like to do and then I really turned myself into basia digitaldesigner self, also to learn, programming languages and also went todemit a visiting scholar. So for me, was a journey. Always I started frommore the artistic side and then design and then at N. I figured out that Ireally like business so and then I started to study a businesses. You knowseveral summer schools that you know elissae think so I think that's oneAmal mix of design and business and it's kind of an unusual part,especially when I go and talk with some of some professor, so even with somepeople on the NBA, because if you had a designer you don't usually like numbersand crunching, you know big spreadsheets, I'm a maker, so I like tomake stuff and into building the faces product in no riginal public. But thenI think I also like the pratical part of making the business work and tocreate a use case around it that a Valuta users, so I think yeah you knownot Shalama designer that turned into one the interpreter, fair enough andthe designer aspect. When I saw that in your history I was thinking just userinterface design, but it sounds like...

...what you're describing that you areinterested in the whole topic of design. I mean I was forced into that, becauseI started to the architecture world so big scale. So you know kind of planning,big CDs, you, my studies and I went to you know I did some Cosbi. You knowsystem design and infrastructure and buildings, and then I went down to thePixel, so you know we that was very useful. You know going to the big scaleto the very tiny time scare was really good because he gives you the top ofalist approach that sometimes you don't find when you say something, becausethat's very specialized. That was my journey. I was almost forced into itbecause growing up in Italy especial side of Italy. You know the access tospecific advance course, as you may have. If you grew up in UK or us, Idon't okay, so once you realize you were anentrepreneur who is going to take your design, passion and use it in business.I know that now again, there's a lot of. I guess what was the first after youfinished studying. I, though I know you never really finished, studying by thesounds of things, but when you decided okay, I'm going to get a job or I'mgoing to start a business again. I'm seeing a lot of roles you had so did you get into userexperience as an employee? First? was that like your first taste, I mean no,I mean there's not really. I mean I always worked since I'm like five.Almost like, as I remember, I was young I used to buy mother bird mother boardsfrom old computers, and then I figured out that the butter he actually wasalready running for one year. Those are spore butty and most of the people thatjust throw away his mother, but so I was buying this mother boat for likefive years change the butterine selling them for fifty years, and I was like,like eight years old, so I always said a kind of Teshi mindset and then I wasworking always as a addresser and then around thirteen years old I discoveredout to program initial cave KIP, so at e building websites. So, and that wasreally a very lucreti job I mean at that time I kept always working as afree Lancer, like you know, through all my university, so for me was kind ofnatural already when I finished uni with my master degree already at likesomething like five to seven years. Seni professional experience that andin fact my first job being feeding was at active work. I was working and wentto work at Nokia thanks to to their job, and what's interesting is now that myfirst employ in felan became my first investor in Coloro and I curas onmentor an adviser, so was amazing, so I always worked and study at same timeand always around basically digital media and uark design. So there wasnever like you know. This is my first year and always been a continue. Okay,so the position in Nokia. That was your sort of post studies. I would say thatyeah, the very sere yeah the first years, professional one. I was a yodesigner, yeah, okay, what were you working on in there? Was it interfacesfor for what yeah, I think I remember do was like one big project was theInternet of Nokia and the OKA seamens actually, and they were like a lot ofdata, so my specialization, my master degree, was about complex design andinformation design when you have a lot of data to visualize, so I think I wentthere and yeah. I was like basically designing all these huge tasper to kindof monitor, Otho the production we didn't. We didn't know assuming intoforsure and also employment, engagement. All of that and then I'd like the otherproject, because that was an agency. I think the big one was the Internet, alot of data graphs it of his Olivain okay, and did you do you enjoy? That?was that a challenge for you? I mean yeah. I know a big challenge becauseall of a sudden, you know you're, like twenty o o we holders at twenty twotwenty three and they to big meetings with all the you know the executivesyou know, so you have to kind of learn how to deal with the corporate worldand the specific language, and I mean that age I was like I'd like the verylong hair. I was very revelous, so I was interesting and- and you feel likenow feel and also its time. So I love the Nordic Sadio feeling it is prettydifferent from from what I used to, but it was interesting right. You were bornin southern Italy. You said right: I was yeah yeah, never the BOA Naples,okay right, so I enables I've been to Naples once very briefly, and I've beento not fill land but on the other side, then mark and is a little different.But you know what about feel and I mean actually. I me first of all, I wantedto go there because I grew up in the most corrupted city in Europe. Right. Iwanted to see what is the opposite. So entasis the last collupted Cidin Europeright and then I went to the Media Lab at the Alto University and Meriamen allthe people that came out of Dat. I mean one of them. Thirty now is at Facebook,and I was at Colina and other guy also started a company in that metal all toNiversity actuary. There were a lot of very good good brains that went aroundthe word, another working big companies, so it was a good choice. Yeah, itsounds like it yeah. It is interesting to look back and the people you met andwhere they end up, especially with your type of a path where you studied in somany places and clearly you know you would have met a lot of differentparian, smart people. What happened after Nokia? Did you move on to anotherroll or what was next so yeah? Now you...

...with up and no yes, I did that and thenI went back. I got my degree for like briefly six months, oh yeah, and then Iwas just working this kind of job event. We is several stands and there was abooful one and they were like hey. Do you know what is a wegitation sure likeyou want, have an interview in thirty minutes. It's like what a I interviewand then they offered me like a job like to start in three weeks orsomething like that. So that was my first experience in London atphotophone and then, after that I worked at BS Bank. I think I had a verygood selling point. That was this information designed it. I salutationcomplex design. At that time it was kind of a very new born discipline, soeveryone loved it, and I that's also the advice I give to lack young peoplethat are starting the job. I have a selling point as pen, no specialty thatkind of makes you will get the team combined. Then after you can expand- orI don't t I think for me- was Davison information design. What years were wetalking about here? When you say this was in demand? It was this. However,that's a longer I'm at least in my brain for so long ago. So many startupsa go. Two Thousand and ten I think, yeah a yeah to and in a hit nine yeahs wasamazing. I was the youngest one in the team. They brought all the team fromorgan stale. There was a software they built at MOGASA Matrix and there wasbill still in a dopy flash. I can reflex, I don't. If you remember to beflex, it was kind of a volitional do be flesh enjoys anyway the brought theydid. This beautiful trading platform super cool, like spent a lot ofmillions. They brought talk Tim from Organ Sally to ups, because US wantedto do the same, and I was part of this huge new incoming and plays, but- and Iwas working together with a very cool information archite and there was thisbase. We were sixty people, odic designer and cove like in this veryobsolete structure. Right, I typically best in a bank round. You know that ifyou go into the IT department, it's runing water, fall methodologies orvery structured and allow a Salya this designer coming in in all a gildmanners, and it was a challenge you know I to tied up every day I des Youknow, put a tin a designer yeah educate. No at least I got my hair a little bit shorter, but I see them. Ithink I resisted there like some like ten months super well paid, but then Iquit and I started my first start. My first call okay, tell me about that. Ah,that was a disaster that was, it was the first one. It was anadditional agency that turned into a product company called Labora, and itwas the time where Groon was very famous upon the COPAL model was, isgetting really really fired, so we did the same stuff, but on mobile forclubbing and bars, we had some traction, but then the team was not try made somany mistakes. I learn so much eventually to go back into contracting,so consulting for for for some companies, London, okay, is there aparticular mistake? You remember from that start up that you took even todaywith Corn Roll Yeah. I think I was just too much about the signer back then soI was, I was designing a lot doing a lot of beautiful Ui, but was not reallytaking contegatur all the technical limitation, all the product managementmethodologies, alport an is recruitment, so I was basically designed with verygood backups and prototypes, but I was not really pushing for right,financials right, ices model and stuff like that. So I was a bit more naive asyou would expect o first company, but also it was to delisious okay. So soafter that you went back to another job at was there another started yeah nowthere was. There was a very destined that because I wanted to make it workright to the agency at this product rat. So we had a few clients you know were.I think I FAYNE CA yeah. I think I to employees. Basia became the jestingtime consultant in London. Basically, all the recruiters in London, the onethat you know all the agencies that needed someone for like two weeks justto come in and fix something or you know they were calling me because I waslike look if you ed someone for a couple of weeks. I need to make extraback because I ad to pay my employees anyway, to make the the agency runningso and I had a lot of conduct of recruiters. So I remember well like twoyears where I was doing a lot of these like two or three weeks: projects forall sorts of clients, agencies in long elicit agencies. So there was a bitstressful, kept us going for a while till I was like okay, that's it letLemee thing out of that and that closed the company yeah and then I went to theUS because actually, actually there is a we went to the US- wasbecause, with that few conversation with some angels in Silicon Ban Rightin California, so me and one of my employe, we went to California to meetthem, but also was like half holiday. So, on the way to so we we passed byBoston- and I remember the night before going to Boston in New York when I didmy master tises- was about smart cities and the Daviston. There were a fewmention of this, professor, that is athematic Al Colorati as the Lobal,sensible city love, and I always wanted...

...to send him all my my importing of workor the book that I wrote en everything so the night before going the boss. Ijust live like Yeah Fuckin, let's end it, so we send it and I call you replywas like look. Can you come to Morrow twelve? You know we have. We have achart days weekly meeting, so you can meet all the researches and then Iremember. I saw that email at one pm already one hour late when I wasalready in Boston, so only worked. Imagine this like fat guy, because Iwas like thank Illos more than that long air running through the Mt. I justmatched into the door in the middle of this meeting and everyone's like o. Youknow who L is this guy and and then he actually, the professor is a sisterthat actually read the mails. I oh yeah. This is gave city, I sit here and thenafter he read a chat and then you read my stuff he saw my port falling waslike look. You want to come here for you to work with us for six months.Like yes sure, and then we back London, then what open it's very interesting. Ilanded the first time I lean in the US. There was a small mistake on the on thevisa, so there was let go a discrepancy, Belen, the visa and the presedentletter from emit, so they actually sent me back now. So I got stumped on FastFort, like you know, refuse Bah Blah and since then, every time I go to theUS, I get double checked from the Fort. You know the two for off why I was likewho was reading if she go now to MIT, especially to the Department ofArchitectin, you ask Oh yeah, the guy that is, that was sent back. The stillnormal problem and t was, I ca experience, and then you remember afterthat time on one day, my friends get so scared because they check on the bagsthen a second time, a mage to get to the US with the proper vision.Everything had been like a cat for six months and then after later went toMadison University with Barabas the one that discovered a network science thatwas also saying VD type over event and just to clarify, because it sounds likeyou went you're running the agency in London, you're heading to California,for a holiday to meet some angels on the way you go to Boston. You just getoffered something, so you say yes I'll do that for six months. Does that meanyou just drop the agency and you know, because obviously the edited a lot ofproblems. You know the e were like just few clients was not going anywhere soyeah we just listed okay. How do you? Because you were traveling with youryour friends or your partner in the company or that to was now that was myemployee yeah? They can play okay, okay, so you close it down. So then you youdo six months in my Tan, then you said: Was it California again? When you didthat network research? All No, then I was always in Boston. I tell my tea forsix months. Then what happens these expires? I have my girlfriend in Boston.We I go back to London for that six months, Bat I started working in Londonfor six months on a contract with the what's Cole Goo, an one of the compaint.I was a very dicing period and then I started applying to a lot of jobs inthe US and that even at the end I got like actually an offer from Bloombergin New York and an offer from this Lalain Boston at nor this universitywith Barabas that and it's funny how I made this professor, because I readthis book called link. I think it's somewhere here the book. I must be upthere just like ten year before I read this book on Network Science and I fella lot with that book and then I was talking with someone in Boston was like.Oh, you know by a bicycle was like: where can I come to visitors like yeahshow? Come I go there? Obviously, the professor was not there. I was busy,but it's like you know what subscribed his letter. You may get some moreinformation and literal two weeks after a subscribe, I Sivana job openingthey're looking for a DEDISTI designer I and I go and check. Who is the de a adesign? At the moment it was actually a friend of a friend. So actually Italked to him like you kno. What do you think about my to fort? For is okay. Ithink you could be sateful just up Li and then I plied and then I got the joband then I went back to the US and still another one year and a half okay,a real, I feel like we could keep traveling along this very typebackground you've got. I do want to move the story forward, though so Iknow there was some other start up. So what was the next start up? You youfocused on. There was one les Cole Flair. So basically, I come from afamily, a generation, a generation of her dressers, so I'm like the fifthgeneration, so I decided to I tinkee tried to join the technology and alsothe hydrating. So I came up with a cram for addressing or mobile for mobiledresses. That was going well, but then we pivoted it color merged into anothercomical Pallino, this one. Actually, I've seen the Masudis on pain, so fairBachin, the paling Soffaire, was going well, but we saw that the market wasMeggan. IC was basically a common war or to manage people, and there was nomuch really techno cool technology, so we pivoted into Pelinka, because thatwas solving a much better need much interesting need. So it idea was thatyou could get paid on a mobile wherever you are just with that with by tappingthe card on your mobile phone by using an s actually now. I think world payreleased on me like these it just like a couple of years ago and that one wasnot just for head dressing but was astray for all contractors, all thesedollars plumbers. I was like doing a lot of his in research. We Flanders, aLi go was there was a was color going,...

...but I'd like big clash with my city o.So at the end I know company is gone. We decided just to close, because theteam was not right. So in these three companies, the first one about thecommerce club being the second one about headdress and the third one aboutthis one about payments. I learned a lot of hard lessons and then, when Iwas at much challenge his accelerator in London, thanks to Belin CollegeCompany, I met what they are now Mico funders. That's all I can that's inthat SENAC. We might we all at previous companies. We let like misery complice,but we just fell in love with with crypto. Also you know we were gettingon very well, so we just decided to to actually focus on Cripplin, stuff orprice company. I mean now it's going well yeah. I love to talk about that. I,like I, just want to connect one dot. I know this with Palinka. There wasn't ablock chain, part of that. If I'm understanding my research is that true, it's good atyoual about that, that's a big misunderstanding, and that comes fromthe XC, so we actually got accepted to the FC son box. So the? U K, O theFinancial Authority that runs this program for startups and in the PR theyjust like, released payments on block chain and a o them look. This is oslike yeah, look, quartoes, ob, sorry now, eyore thinks that it was a blochinut's, not and yes, but I got a lot of a lot of visibility thanks to the MC Kay,interesting yeah, because we're talking about two thousand and sixteen rightaround about that time, you were running pay Linco, so because it soundsto me a lot like what you can do now, with your standard mobile phone usingthe wallet that's built in to store. You know you hold your credit card andyou can just or even just square or something like that similar. How was itdifferent man? I guys about accepting payments, not like sending payments, soyou can Plumerian your place. I stole a new boiler. You need to pay me fivehundred pounds or dollars. You know you don't have cash, usually a plumber justgive you an invoice and goes away, but on you could actually top on your phonedirectly and then you can accept the money. I'm not sure there is on themarket, something that that goes through this and massacre, and then yousee the more directly and in your phone and thinking like square in the US withwith their the originally had quite yeah. It's quite probably. Yes, you seeit to a seat, a spate device but yeah in a sense. The propositions er, youdidn't, have a device. You just had a yeah yeah. I sin was that you onapplication for free on the phone. Okay, interesting, okay, yeah, let's bring itup to the current project with coin roll. Obviously you had a very diversebackground from the education experience working clearly in all kindsof different roles, a lot of it in user in to face design, but all over theplace three startups prior to coin rules. So you had. You have like theperfect combination of experiences skills, education that everyone looksfor an in a founder really. I know you know it speaking to other investors.They love to meet someone like you, who's, starting something. Maybe beforewe talk about the investing side, though, when you met your current cofounders, was it a case of we already have an idea? Let's do this or we don'thave an idea, but I like you guys, I want to do something together like howdid that come together in came together that Basta. I wish I I I mean about bitcon. I T O twenty twelve right and then I sold it and I made six percent and Iwas so happy because I did. I was work at university and I in the much morelitened Ed more to go on one and then in two thousand and sixteen I went tocheck my on base account just like it and that's a his other calling calledthe therium and that's not buying it to know. What's going to happen up, I sawboat twenty or something, and then I felt a love again. We cooked on then atnight. While I was something I was running paling I was the signing an upsiner to block follo. It is a pot to follow up to try your coins, but mygoal was to buy a house with criptores Ode to have a kind of sectoral ize goal,oriented port folio up right. So I started signing this one and then outof that as Otting, I wanted to do some automation. I start sketching just likesome some some idea how to interface to to make no trades. So when I talked toRalik aready this idea and no sure you said yeah, the funny thing is that weare in Samael. This acted was a tobacco on right. So it's a former tobaccofactor and we had huge tables like twenty meters. Long right- and therewas- I mean not a few- she saw some picture of Lic. Is this a ginger guylike all finding, like you know with the glasses, and it was super smartright and then every time I was, I was working nine to five at the time I wascontracting and then my team much feeling of four people that was Baspaby me by taking the money from the sale and put in there so nine to five, I wasworking after five. I was going to the Acella to work with my guys, so I wassuper stressed, and there was this guy from the other side of the table thatevery time I wanted to meet me and talk to me have a coffee with him. But- andI was like man- I don't the time for this, so I'm like I have two jobs, butthen eventually after three months as I o t can look ten minutes, what do youwant and then we start talking and I show him the sketches and then it'slike o. This is cool. You know and hestart talking more about Crypto, sothe idea was already there all I wanted...

...to do some ing, Crypto tennees welcomea little bit later, but you wanted to do something more about the tic as well.So I think there was a mix of Aniditi Idea, plus the conversions, but it wasthe perseverance of all. I really wanted to make me that that kind ofstarted this spark okay, but you were all in this accelerator for differentreasons like you were there for a Linco and they were there for under companieso yes yeah. I got like my think, a mentorship platform that companies canuse to where people mentoring each other or something and sane cat. Like asuper, safe, identic, ation system, I calea, then a company he was so pivetfrom something that was something something like sexual educationplatform and then it became my logging system and then so yeah o crazy pitsthere a exactly yeah, you guys are all in there you're talking about this idea.That idea, though, is not any of the three ideas you're currently buildingindividually. So how do you decide to? Basically, kill three projects to cometogether to start coin rule. How? How does that conversation happen? Oh myGod! So for me for me it was very muver easy because again, either cofoundercall gg she's a super cool girl and and she's Chinese right and she was inLondon. She was still on Avisa from the university, but then all of a suddenshe sees a letter from the from the border policing. Like look. YourBusiness expired you to run ere on the country so Baloney, because she was ain almost deported again all this Lamia problem, so she went away yeah my cityor that time the good one went away. I got to the CITO, so the product wasn'tgoing anywhere because I wouldn't be the pot by myself and my funds werereally like, very, very low. So, for me was a no brain and, like you know, okay,either get an investment here or I can perceive another interesting idea,always in the FINTECH. All I guess. Well, I remember when he showed meshowed me his product. It was working, but the I was just like. Oh, my God, Iwas like siming around the s like so I was like. Oh like I think you should dosome more work in an s and the? U Jenik. You didn't find that. I think I don'tknow the food story with Xara. I think I didn't find that way to monetize whathe built and actually Zenik is Cofano died. You know that's a very bad story:Age. We are laughing a bit all died. You had the kind of looking like cancerlike we in a Wiki die. So I mean you start up word in the case of stuff ofan anyway. So in a way you know we were after. I was on Balingo for like atleast a couple of years, so I was already like a bit of tired and youread see much of a potomack feet and also much of a good team. So I failedin in recruiting the right people also because you know recruiting when youdon't their Monis very, very hard. I managed to do it several times, but youdon't get the top much people right. You get also the interns you get. Theyoung people, because you are to play w what you get soothing yeah, we were abit tired and also crypto, was basically making us a lot of moneyreally because we are buying a t. So we follow to Portugese. Then we fill lolstechnology and now you know we prefer more when they are very market, becausethat's where you are the most interesting and is instead of whenthere's a bull market, I just you just get a lot of people into the space thatjust just want to make more in as peculators. Okay, so through clearly avery diverse range of circumstances, you all realize you could come togetherto start and actually work on coin roll. Did you all three of you say: Okay,we're shutting down our current projects, or you say: Let's work onthis together on the side, and how did you build the first like NB, how I wasvery strict at with Ol it because then I came after one year about with all aa look weter work or not because I don't like so. Let's give me Tisourself on Mont months to actually close to other companies or not closeby just to part the project so yeah. I think it's just open a ray. I kept thepaling open a itit because I ingua brand a a lot of success. I got in voidfor two the years to the to the bankers dinner. I was sitting you know withwith the revolution, so you know the Makarei was thanks to Pellico, becauseactually the brand was very strong, so I kept it open so that we could. Hestill is in coming leads from like events or peaching fitting opous for tolay Mons I got over by ten yea after I went full time sed a way, a lixil likea part time job and after one year, I think all like call Ik yeahjust also gave up to the good job. So I was bake the first one to go full timeon Coro and I remember a very specific moment were to tousaint. He was aroundI in January, two thousand and Te. Finally, we got accept into anaccelerator that to wars, an Langaran accelarated, so first of all we gotthis in coming leads like saying hi guys you want to particalarly or right.So it's like and as I was like look now, I'm watching cove. You would like toapply with this. With this althered. They were okay, we got accepted. Theygave us a hundred twenty five K, plus try Mono Acelin in Buda. So it's veryfunny because a lot on base company all...

International Year you're in the centerof the start up ecosystem in Europe. We have to go to Budapest to actually fundries and the were acland text. Star did accept as all the other good AcellaEurope Laka anyway, so we got accepted, and then I remember this that one nightwere on the phone with Dollie you didn't want to. I didn't have the I think at that moment he didn't wantto kind of quit. The this job is a four days a week. Job You know was a Clok.We can do. Maybe I can come there. The weekend I can go back to London. Maybeis like look, I'm taking a Yuberi now, let's meet a this part next to yourplace, Tonenden PM at night, sick yeah! Let's talk about it because that'swhere a lot of a reponne fails to make the jump. When I sometimes wills theydo it very early, and it's some mistake because you need at least six months toset up your company and you know to Tuck ourself out all the Adermannoperation and the basic things some people, they don't champ and theyactually did love the project. By this case we had an offer that and all itwas just like too cautious. So we are de Parers, a Clok. We do do we dejounded, you come from time off. For me it was a company I'm like sometimes I'mjust black and white and and it was like okay. Let me think I understand,because you know that job was nice and for this a week was perfect, but wefound a good social that he did one I came to Budapest in March. He did onemonth working remotely from them, so I could kind of juggle the two jobs butthen after it was full time on cone and that's where the actual company started,because we were four of us in one place to the accelerator and in fact we wonas a best start of a nexte. We did the under twenty fink. We also got moreinvestments from all the dangers, the guy from freeland that were my firstemployees. So everything came to go. It was very intense, not Tatulu, intense,because I also broke up with my girlfriend after five years, because Iwent to uteris so yeah I was was all of a sudden. I change my lain, but a bestI group with my girlfriend. Finally, we have a company that is funding, andthis kind of you know is going well. So was I don look a Tiki Roll, a coursethere? Okay did you cut your hair by then we sneare the haircut story goingall right. So let's talk exactly about coin rule, so you built the firstversion. When did you get your first customer and like what was that? Firstversion yeah, so the VP was made in the four weeks during the excellet yeah. Wehad a few fist first cat for fast cast. I think the building the community ofone hundred the users, the first one was not too hard. Thanks to microfunders to all thing is very good and creating that woman is a Egona work.Yeah. We had like the first customer trying now trailing like five hundredthousand the first one we had like a lot of bugs so some of them. We also wewere like bas cat giving the product for free and also be in very cautious.Maybe just before we talk more, I be really good just to break down. Whatdoes coin rule allow you to do like how does it a yeah yeah? So, basically withCaro, you can do an automation right on cating, so, instead of buying andselling at specific time, you dont sit in in front of a laptop at night orwhen the price drops. You can actually say if this up and do that it's like ftfor Crypto, so the factor is always like if bit coin goes down threepercent by this other coin, on the specific price, even certain conditions,and then you can actually set off, which condition you can say, volupeother other indicators. So it's very sad forward. You, an Ave, a bit coin,was down by this or fin or if this happened to this and that and it's avery visual, very simple, to use no programming skills needed it's a nocold platform and you can create more than ten zero different automates peice.You can also use some of the tin plates for your video now. I know when I firstheard about clonoe- and I start looking into it- I was like, but I don'tactually transfer and trade on coin rule it interfaces with the actualexchanges like Linane and coin base and so on. So how does? How does that work?Do you have to like API in so that coin rule can trigger transactions throughthrough those platforms? Is that right? We give super power to to the exchangespace, ca yeah later, on top of a coin base finance we have more than elevenexchanges integrated, so the way it works, you can just create an Pak. Itis a string of letters and numbers on your exchange, so you do yourregistration there. Your Wallet is on Your Change. We don't touch your money,but then you copy and pace this key on Coro and then the two machines areconnected and you build the automation on Caro and then call o sand the buyingand selling destruction to the underlying platform when it's needed.So con was like a robot, that's trading on my exchange account now. The otherthing I thought of when I also first heard about clemow s like I could seemyself just giving myself like a price point, I'm happy to buy at, but then Ithought the true power here is that, like what the bigfinancial firms towhere they're setting up algorithms to...

...basically constantly like to fasttrading throughout the day, just to take advantage of you know, suddendrops and- and I was like- I wouldn't even know how to create that structure,and I believe Cornwall does provide some kind of templates to start with.How does how did you design that we have a head of trading in our companyand Ne Designs? All the templates now at when we were on the hundreddifferent in places that you can use on your count of choice? So obviously wehave access to all the coins that you have an Bindane coin base, so they havethousands of thousands, and we give also the tin plates and what'sinteresting is that we are not like a black box investment to where you putthe money you go away and you get your five percent per mond or whatever, butyou actually see what's happening. So even when you select that an play, yousee the structure and you can decide what's the amount here with some onethere. What's the price point and then you Prespaterian. Thank you appreciatethe explanation at. I want to talk about the founding story here, but Ireally need to understand what you guys do. So that's really great and I'massuming that all those features were there from day one like you had to kindof start, adding things as you went. The N BP was probably just some basicrules like if this is this price. By and the way you go right, I also knowyou did a crowd finding campaign as well as later on an actual rays, whichis the most recent raise, and you got some amazing backers: Kayak Cofounder,eight sleeps in there I'm going to aesepus yeah. So, but maybe we can dothis in order with the last sort of ten fifteen minutes we have so you guys getsome funding from Buda pest with the accelerated there. You get some angelinvestors after you finish it. You built the VP. Your Co founder was ableto sort of find the first hundred and then you sort of go from there. Yeahyeah I try yeah with with Mk back at an GRANET was a bit more complex becausethe gausted they were like. Okay, O. We love your command stuff, but sinceyou're Crypto, our board of director cannot approve the extra antek. If youdon't bring the coin vestals and they tell us like these four weeks prior tothe end of the program, we're like ally, you know, Oh, my God, where, where arewe going now? And then that's why we went crazy like and it was difficult tofind the angel, and, thank God that you know Mike, was came and then Nita addedthe extra. I think seventy five K- and that was the first round, but then whathappened there was upon Dencie fast forward. You know, there's a lot ofstuff, we build a lot of things and then a fast forward. We are a in Marchwhere we were starting the new found Ras. This is much twenty twenty. We hada time shit on the table for like some way to hundred a fifty k from one fundin London. Literally the time shit was with some men like the fifth of Marchand the panamic Ilona hit on eighth of March, when they, when we became real awell literally like a d and the Vesta send us an y mas like Lo guys, thevaluation we gave you now we can give it any more. I think, was valuation offour million pounds. I mean if you on the same deal. Devaluation would be onepoint: Seventy five like what like yeah, because we need to send money for ourpart for our companies. Some sorry is, and I was like okay, we are basalfundraising at simulation of one year ago. This is not good like we're justgiving out. You know shows like like this, but some times we had very verynot much, not much, crushing the bank, so it was that was ve special becausewe did March and Basil June. We have to we had like faraone. We we put peopleon for low were to fire to people and the team shrink to to five people, andwhat was interesting also the our employees by themselves is like look. Ican cut my sorry by twenty percent of problem, so I was a mazing Gu. I nowreally saw how they were stepping up and helping company, so we had tobasically built everything from scratch and all the Fund Rais, and that's whywe came off with the idea of overdoing or cord funding campaign. I came upwith this fane. You know being a designer helps because you're thatcrady part that comes and some that really help. So I don't know why Ibuilt a page like investing. I don't know a website R and I put it on topmen. I don't even know if it's league- probably it's not, but let's Assueto,you got there and I was I was like look before. We do see this. Let me talkjust Waldo. We lock at the funny Campan by our self on the website, and then Isaw that a lot of people were requesting like investment and K Koka,so we built a huge backlog of at least fifty people that want to by someamount of money on our CNOCAN, because what we add, thanks to another growth,tacking trick that the previous year we built, we had a lot of sufficint. Soeven so, even if these people were not becoming uses, they were actually thewell knowing about us and they, like the company. The about US pages are sothey akawoias. Do you mind sharing what the got hack was Gabriel this tosecurity, yeah yeah? That's I told everyone by now: We built a machine.That's why that so there was this friend of mine, Buda. We got this bigouse. We to start up this fellow mind on me about this system to build a lotof leniades and really clicked with me Soo. I went off on a tangent and I gota lot of freelances and people. I took...

...like thirteen people in different threemonths to a folly building stuff, but it's basically, we have a magic ofwords and from ATMA ICAL words and synonymous and viable, which generatethousands of thousands of landing pages drank very, very well, so some of themBrang first position of the first page of Google and I'm talking about hundredsixty thousand landing pages that we generate more than twenty sen. so wehave this machine now that continuously generate lending pages. With a specificcontent, you know with the keywords of changes, coins, crypto strategies andobviously so generate a lot of traffic, a lot of traffic, okay and and then heis like the similar of the pages that you, Google kind of, does rang that sothere's a lot of work to do also non selling. The originally is the content.So thanks for teclare a lot of traffic, so these people, basically, we built ahuge backlog of people that want to to invest, and thanks to that, basically,we then started building the crowd. Finding Cabin on Cedars and and BestGonds. The Way to works on cites on Onicrom is that you are to bring atleast forty to fifty percent of the funds you on foundries and then, whenthe campaign opens, you are at fifty percent lise moment when people join,so I ca CA. Sanin helps for amplifying your race doesn't help prey to fund is,but we'll be the last of these things. So we staid in this position lowsalaries, a lot of people interested. We start the crowd finding campaign andat some point, the lockdown fillies towards July. We ended a huge feline,create increase. We just went all the team plus some friends. We are twentypeople in Greece and we were working from the we send the video maker downthere. So we should be do the very nice video that is online, so we isbeautiful, video in by Celibite tat and then I remember we started withsomething like I think, two hundred fifty K, that was the target of thecampaign, but then in private mode, because you can have also pre sale. Wealready reached to me like Tunda forty and then in private mode, the secondday of the Carfinny Company, when it was still private, which just wenthundred percent. I like what is the Tas make sense we already a tele percentanyway and we are still in private, so I to in the campaign very quickly andthen we went on the platform. You know there was so much momentum that we wereally that I think two hundred two percent. So we raised five hundredfifty eight pounds, and so I went very well. We never did any marketing tillthat point. We were very, all we think was organic with the growth ack. So Ithink the CARANCO was the first kind of Brenda wardness top of initiative andif it were very, very good yeah, we brought us to the reader of a lot ofthis season, angels yeah. What was the valuation for the Crowd Fund, becauseobviously it was four mill million pounds before. Do you remember it was,I I mean not fall from the next elate. The first investment was in pound. OnePoint: Two pounds was beer and then for the car finding was four point: six,I'm always missing, because I bilin dollars and pounds so with I mean wecan look it up and that's it's like it was similar to what you originally werehoping to raise before it was a reb in October, when we found a podthink we were making taka month since last November, in two thousand andtwenty till now we made a basically atene. So now we making around a Kamon.So the market you know really picked up, had also resolved few problem platformand the bows the marketing help. Okay and then I was up and we wereremembering a with the market. This made the two thousand and twenty one wealready were talking with. Somebody sees to do kind of a serious, so at ahigh valuation. Al Of that, then the market was really bolish. So it was mewe were making something like under sixty month, so I was very good numbersfor a sea and then we see a message for icy comminated. Now we have played forwelcommer, like I do know like six seven times every year we it's like akind of religion which is t you know they actually reach out to us. When wehave this high man, it's not toby typical, because you are you got towelcome me. The way you don't have any, even like anyways yeah, with a chart,the you know the interview. Does it's a ten minute interviews, ten minutesinterviews, it's very very, very hard. I just shoot like question one afterthe other by aentab made it. So I remember Hargood partners a starts fora call at eleven P m. We like super tied on a Friday night, and I was likea year in were like these- are just destroyed because we'll be working allweek and I was like quite not tap. Yes, you have S, but he at seven P M, butyet we're not been sleeping for like a few days, we that in California andthen we joined welcome me I was I was a bit o capital about at the beginning,because basically, in this batch there were like four hundred eight companiesand only around five ten commands were at our stage items of monthly revengesright. So you show the like there much early stage company, so I didn't know Inot so because we had to move the combine to the US and I strongly a inyour pan is strong to believe in Europe and I lived in the US a lot of it, butI don't like specific thing of that...

Condo society system, so I didn't wantto move the combine in the US. I, like the UK UK legislation. I like Sitles,that is a platform the tola you to do everything the UK in tens of fund raising and andlegal. You know documents for start up by anyway, so it was a hard decisionfor me, but eventually understood it was the right one. So the program isjust you know it's just great yeah. What's your part of that that networkWilcom penter you like a Super Man Dan, you have your access to everything,everyone we got mentorship from the funder of Abd under as strive in thefonder of a twitch, so many good people. Everyone is willing to help they really.They are like a very, very good interet called book face, not facebook publicplace and that's the Bible. It's like a lot of stuff that there's a lot of very,very, very, very interesting and important bass. So Yeah Beli have somany questions. I you've got to go in about five minutes. I feel like I could.I need another half an hour, but we wrapping up. I do want to know clearlyyou're at r still a fairly early stage, but you've you've already grown quiterapidly. Where do you want to take Colin rule and and how do you plan togrow it to the next phase of the life yeah? That's I mean we have some plans,but that's it's very hard. So what we did with we funders now. I think twopoint two million dollars and you know, as you said, we had the founders oftwitch joining fit, beat Kayak Navarana Fund, the guy from it sleep, dilicate,so very good investors. You also are declined for Andrea from Vinane, forexample, because we didn't want to dilute ourself much, but now, basicallywe have to spend more. So we've been very fru galty now, and we are verygood at that, but we are learning in the company how to spend money. So weare recruiting two EXTA developers. Designers, the team is, is becoming nowit's like fourteen people, but it's becoming and twenty people. So we havefew main features that we are deploying. One is the back testing to want, be thesimplest back testing in the world, so the ability for you, if you be thestrategy to actually go back in time and test the strategy, diferentcondition how til they perform in two thousand and eight or exam so that youcan actually on inform the guys how the Tatao works and you can tweak it beforelunching, that's very important, and then we also working on a market place,so an ability of creating a strategy selling it on the market place and alsoto do copy trading. So you can actually copy someone's face the same way. Youdo an it all. So these are just two of the big models we are building and thenthere is also a tack into the define, Pace and other exciting feature. Soit's like as a bit sufficent. We are doing and now we're using also okay R,so to make us more focused. We also change the way we walk on the folate m.So now we have like bigger modules, and everyone works on that thing for likeone month, instead of before we're doing a lot of more things, so I thinkyeah, those are the main man. Actions were taken as fantastic yeah. It doesfeel like you know, it is almost like day one still. Yes, your a platform fora lot of people. It's a place to set up a free account and actually just usethe the demo trading account just to learn how this whole. You KnowAutomated Trading System Works, I think, is fantastic. I'm assuming you like yousaid you got over, was a hundred thousand users, but it wasn't sure howmany are paying, but you've got a right. Now, anyway, I'm reading, like a thirtydollar a month plan and a sixty dollar month, plan which I'm assuming or forthe more advanced people who get comfortable with that. That's likebasically that's kind of like the customer path. Right they becomebeginners, they learn they get comfortable in the upgrade and startusing. You know the paid version or races. Yes, yes, I think that I meanthe best way to just join corellis. To try, for you know the FE account thedemos. You know you can build a two or three remous just an fun and then onceyou see the something works after a few weeks, then you can acis. Okay, let metry and upgrade into the twenty ten dollar plant and see you now factory.My My apogees works in the real market. Yeah. I real like the idea of copytrading at some point to I can imagine people you know you have thosesuperstars will show up and come up with these amazing algorithms that theybuilt, and then you can just pick copy and and what you go. So that would bean that's very quick round breaking. I know Yoto kind of May it happen withjust general trading, but yeah you're doing it with with the diversity of coins, as somany all can exactly yeaaa. The Look of Cortes that have more kind of abilityto grow, grow faster yeah. They jump around like crazy, so you've got to goGabriel. Thank you so much for sharing. Obviously, Coin Rolo the place to goany other websites you want to share. I think I know also now r blog in ourmedium. You can find a lot of strategies. We also publish thestrategy of the week on Instagram, so you can look at that is Rubano head oftrading. That knows a lot about Crypto, so he always shows his steps. Awesome Ifeel like we should do this again in a year or two just to see you know what'sthe next few faces, but thank you Gabria that as a lot of fun, that's AIT,perfect. Thank you got over that. You...

Tob. I hope you enjoyed that interview withGabrielle Mucella, the Co and Co founder of Con Rule Com. I reallyenjoyed it because I felt we were able to do a solid review of kind of likethese three key parts of his life. His experience with an education in designhis time working for other companies like Nokia, so many other companies aswell and then his three startups that he had before he then launched coinrule. We should definitely check out his link in educate a chance. It waschallenging for me as an interviewer to go. Where do I take this becausethere's so many different points on his linked in? I could have probably askedhim for three hours worth of stories, but we have we had only an hour. I hadto squeeze it in there. I do feel like it's. There are a couple points thatreally stood out to me that I just want to breathe the highlight to you as away to also remind myself with them. One of the things I thought was reallyinteresting was how Gabriel talked about keeping his previous start up,Palinka, which was a thin text, start up for micro payments or payments tocontractors, and I thought that was interesting, that he kept it going,even though he was well and truly focusing on coin rule, he kept palinggo going because they were getting a lot of invites to pretty prestigiousevents with other findet companies, and that was obviously great for networkingand probably meeting potential investors. Maybe staff members thingslike that, and it shows the power of being in a hot topic area or hotindustry. In fact, I think Gabriel even said that he was like, if you're a newentrepreneur, even someone young, considering what to study focus on theemerging markets, because there's just so much interest. That means you caneither get a job at a startup. You can certainly potentially start your owncompany, and perhaps it will be easier for you to get funding and very likelybe easier for you to get into accelerators, which was the other pointI want to share with you. I really found it interesting how Gabrielle wasin lots of different accelerators. I counted at least three during thisinterview early days, accelerator, the buddiest accelerator, and then whyculminate or as well I felt like for him. It just seemed normal, like you goto an accelerator as like a stepping stone almost like a step one onceyou've got your idea on your co founders, because it's going to catchyou that initial, whatever it is, twenty sandolas up to a hundredthousand dollars it'll help you to build an MV to really commit to thefact that just starting to start up and obviously there's all the connectionsto investors and so on as well. So if you kind of marry those two ideas beingin hot and emerging markets and going into accelerators, it's a pretty clearpath for a new entrepreneur today, which is really wonderful to say thatthere are so many different accelerators. Let's point out to howcool is it that you can travel to these exciting countries? I mean I know hesaid he was a little upset that they did not get to stay in London, wherethey all were at the time, so they had to go to Buddhas instead, but as aperson, I'm a digital, no man, I love to travel, so the idea of kind ofconnecting travel with your business. I know accelerators are very timeconsuming and you have to kind of be all in, but you could certainly get abit of experience of the other new city you're in when you're going through theaccelerator. So anyway, I found all this very exotic, very exciting, allthe topics. I love new technology with crypto startups. Obviously, worldtravel just the diversity of people and places. So I really enjoyed listeningto Garpel and I feel like we're very much at the early days of coin rule aswell. I recommend you had to Cleito and click that invest button. If you have alot of money, so you could possibly get into their next funding around. I'm notsure if they're still going to do any kind of crowd base funding, but theremight be an opportunity to as they continue to grow. Okay, I hope youenjoyed this one. If you did, I would love you to share it. I feel likethere's a lot of good reasons to share this interview with anyone who isinterested in startups, or maybe anyone who's in the academic world just tohear how Gabriel transition from academic to working to start a founderand so on share this episode with them. It's number twenty four of vestedcapital. You can go to vested capital, podcast com, which will take you to myblog in the page. where I keep the podcast, you can also subscribe onspotify on Apple, I tunes on Google podcasts on Amazon podcast. Even in theaudible apple, you listen to audio books. You can type, invest the capitaland find this and then hit the subscribe button or the follow buttonor it could be the plus, but whatever button they have for you to stay asubscriber you'll get every episode as I release them. You'll have access toall the previous episodes of vested capital, plus all the best episodesfrom my previous podcast with a previous version of this podcast, whichwas called the Yaro podcast, and before that the entrepreneurs tourney podcasthave highlighted about fifty more of my best episodes in there. So you've gotplus seventy. Now I think you can dive into a very much focused on startups,investing technology. All of the cool topics that best to cut that thecapital covers. Okay, that's it! For me my name is Yaro. I look forward tospeaking to you on the very next episode. Bye, bye, O.

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