Vested Capital
Vested Capital

Episode 27 · 10 months ago

(EP27): Teddy Kyres, Founder Groupe Orbis Mortgage Brokerage, Single Broker Does $100 Million In Loans In One Year, How To Secure Finance For Property When The Banks Say No

ABOUT THIS EPISODE

Teddy Kyres is the founder of Groupe Orbis, a Montreal based mortgage brokerage firm, with over 60 brokers following the system Teddy created for succeeding as a mortgage broker.

Teddy is also my mortgage broker and helped me secure finance for investing in Montreal when I didn't have much of a tax history in Canada after moving here from Australia. The banks wouldn't loan to me, so Teddy helped me find alternative financing until I built up more history as a Canadian tax payer.

During this podcast we look at Teddy's early years as a mortgage broker and what he did to become one of the most successful in the entire country, doing over $100 Million in loans in a single year as one individual broker.

We then look at how Teddy branched out on his own starting a brokerage firm so he could expand by building a team.

Throughout the interview I also ask Teddy to break down his own property investing strategy, which as you would expect, has played a big part in Teddy's strategy for growing his net worth over time.

Enjoy the episode.

Yaro

Podcast: https://www.yaro.blog/pod/

Blog: https://www.yaro.blog/

Hello, this is Yarrow and welcome to vested capital, Episode Number Twenty seven, featuring my guest Teddy Kures, the founder of the group orbits mortgage brokerage. Vested capital is a podcast about how people make money and put their capital to work. I interview start up founders, Angel investors, venture capitalist, Crypto and Stock Traders, real estate investors and leaders in technology. Today I had the pleasure of hosting my friend Teddy, who is actually my mortgage broker here in Montreal, Canada. Over the last three four years I've been purchasing a few properties, Alex, a Condo and the bottom of a duplex that I currently live in, and Teddy was my financier, my mortgage broker. He helped me get the finance for all three properties, and that was a little bit difficult because I came to Canada from Australia. I have a passport for both countries, but I have no tax record here in Canada and I certainly didn't have what the traditional banks would need in order to qualify me for a standard mortgage. So when I start investing here, I need to find alternative forms of financing through what you would call a be lender these are different, not a level banks, but they're still financial institutions that provide home loans and provided I would have like twenty percent down for my initial payment on the property, I could get loans. Unfortunately, the loans often had a higher interest rate. That's just part of the process of going through a be lender. But the idea is you're only with them for one or two years while you get the necessary criteria in place to then switch over and refinance at a better interest rate with one of the a lenders. At least that's what I've been doing over the last three four years, now that I have a tax history here in Canada. So I invited teddy because he's got a bit of a reputation here in Montreal as just being a total legend in the financing mortgage broker space. He worked for ten years of the Bank of Montreal as a peak performer. He was really doing far above the average as a mortgage broker representing Bank of Montreal, at one point doing as much as a hundred clients a year and about five hundred deals. So that that's far and above the the typical average for mortgage broker. So I wanted to hear how he was able to, you know, first of all, become an amazing mortgage broker. What does it take to succeed in that kind of career and financing people's homes? But then also how he started his own brokerage. So four years ago, in two thousand and eighteen, or a little bit less than four years, he broke away and started his own mortgage broker so it could hire brokers to work under his own brand, teach them, train them on his systems and his process, and today he's got a team of sixty and is one of the most, you know, high profile mortgage brokerage firms in Montreal. So we talked about that, how to switch to his own company, how he grew it. You know, what it looks like to run a mortgage brokerage. But also I asked Teddy throughout this interview about property investing and financing. He has himself being a property investor throughout his entire career. So we talked a little bit what his strategy is in terms of what types of properties he's bought. You, is you a buy and hold? Is You buy and renovating, flip? What is a strategy? How does he manage the properties that he owns, and I also ask them some questions regarding the future of a lending and finance. In particular, I've been interested in defy recently, so I asked him a question about defy, basically decentralized finance and how that might impact the home loan lending space, and also just what he recommends today. If you are interested in getting into property, you know some basic questions around financing and how best to finance your first purchase and then ongoing purchases if you can, you know, continue to develop a portfolio property investments. So we're definitely talking property investment and financing. That is the topic of this podcast. You know, this may not be your preferred method of investing. I'll be honest. It's not my my main one, but I do like it because I've always been exposed to a growing up. It's the only asset class I feel comfortable presently anyway, using leverage, which means financing lending, borrowing money from from banks in this case, which means obviously that I'm buying a property that's much higher than my own capital input into the value of the property. So potential gains are significant. PUSS. Of course you've got this the standard formula of your tenants paying back the mortgage over a long period of time. But it is just one finance tool, one investment method I use in the overall different buckets I have of investing and obviously Ted he's been a big part of it with me here in Canada. Prior to accounted I did have properties in Australia and I actually owned a condo in Ukraine as well for when I was living there. It's currently an AIRBNB. So I have a little bit of property experience. I definitely do not call myself an expert, nor is it my main focus, but I do feel comfortable knowing that I've got these three properties here in Montreal and and just because of Canada being what it is, there's been some capital appreciation over the last couple of years, but there's also been a lot of hassles. I would it's say. It's not been a smooth failing process investing in property either. So you know, bit overaller coaster, rid highs and lows, that's for sure. But if you're just in property, and I don't think you need to be Canadian, certainly if you're a Canadian, specifically in Montreal. You'll definitely find this...

...episode interesting, but Teddy gave an overall view of what it's like to, you know, work as a mortgage broker, get financing for home loans and as a property investor, what strategies he recommends and he uses. Okay, the other thing I want to mention to you is, of course, our sponsor for today's episode, which is Inbox Donecom I'm actually secretly trying to get teddy to become a client inbox done. We had a little chat after I finished recording this interview, because he has this large team of peak performing mortgage brokers working under him and they deal with a lot of email and one of the main concerns for a mortgage broker is you might miss a lead that pops into your inbox because you're still busy just servicing your current clients, just doing a great job, but you're getting all these new emails coming in every day and there might be some lead sitting in there and you're just not getting back to them fast enough, so you might miss out on customers. That's a huge concern for mortgage brokers. It's a huge concern for a lot of industries. You could be a real estate age and you might missing out on potential buyers or sellers. You know, if those leads come through email and if you're not fast enough and they'll get back to them, another realistic agent could jump on that same with really any opportunity. Doesn't matter what kind of business. You might be doing, big property deals, you might be lying and selling businesses, whatever it is, if there's the these opportunities flowing into a very crowded inbox, getting yourself an executive assistant to jump in there and process those emails, find those hidden deals that might be sitting in that could be in the spam folder, could be in your main inbox, to in and amongst the other thousand of emails you have sitting in there, so they can basically look after all that makes you don't miss out any deals, don't miss out on opportunities. Reply to emails too, so they can even begin the process of actually nurturing those opportunities. So not only are you made aware that they exist, this person is actually beginning the process of converting that opportunity into a customer, a client or whatever. It is ideal for you and your business not to mention just the mental relief, the clarity, the sense of more relaxed lifestyle you can have when you know it's someone else's responsibility to go into that inbox and reply to your messages, deal with all the everyday information that you don't need to deal with, you should not be dealing with, and then highlighting the the small percentage of very important things you need to know about that come into your inbox. And that's exactly what inbox done does. We're ready working with real estate agents, property investors, doctors, dentist lawyers, online coaches, venture capitalists, some car sales. The industries are all over the place and we love helping any any person who's dealing with too much email. Typically we focus on helping the founder or the executive, the manager, the leaders in a company who are dealing with too much email in their personal and business inboxes. We can do customer service as well, though we tend to focus more on the leaders and the daytoday work they do. They're not usually customer facing, but for some of our our clients when they're doing both, they're doing all that leaders leadership decisionmaking, but they're also dealing with maybe just questions about products and services. We deal with that, not to mention in social media INBOXES, applying to messages. They're scheduling your calendar, collecting information to make sure your calendar is up to date with everything need to know about the people you're going to be speaking to. Data entry. So, for example, with a mortgage broker, if you get a person signing up for a mortgage, you probably have to collect a lot of information from them and input that into certain software platforms. So your assistance can do the data entry for you as well. Pretty much anything an executive can do, an executive virtual assistant can do. We do that for you. But we specialize in managing email, where you do need a specialized skill set and that's what we train and hire for. If you do become a client, you will get to executive virtual assistants assigned to you and they can jump in and start clearing that email straightaway for you and, you know, building a real system to manage your inbox, and then you can delegate more to them over time as well. If that is something you're just that in. You want to become a client, head to inbox. Donecom we love to have you as a client. Just book a discovery call, will learn more about your needs and we can decide the best fit whether we will, you know, help you solve all these problems in your business and in your life. That's inbox. Donecom all right, now let's hear from Teddy, the founder of group orbits, mortgage broker. All Right, here we are with Teddy. Thank you for joining me today. Hi, how you are a very nice to be here. Thank you for inviting me. Yeah, this is a little bit different of an interview because you and I have worked together. Those who don't know, Teddy is actually the mortgage broker who helped me acquire finance for some properties I purchased here in Montreal, and Teddy has a bit of reputation here in this town for well, being very good at what you do, being able to secure finance in situations that borrowers might not otherwise be able to. In fact, that's one of the reasons I came to you. As a small business owner, I didn't really have the history, and you know the especially as a Canadian. I'd only been here for a couple of years and not a lot of tax history. So I want to talk to you a little about financing a property but also just you know your life as a mortgage broker and how you got so good at what you do and and since the topic of best the capital is all aspects of growing capital and cash...

...flow, I'd love to even know not just what you do is a mortgage broker, what you do personally, Teddy, in terms of your own investments and so on. But let's start with your claim to fame, as we were joking about it before we hit record, like what's the the big number of the claim to fame we can share about what you do and what you've done. Yeah, so I've been the business for about close to almost fifteen year years now, and originally claim to fame was really if you would hit a hundred million of volume in a single year, you've made it and you're doing very, very well. It was as unachievable back then and after I think my third year, I had done that. So and now, as you as we had discussed was you know, I own a mortgage brokerage that we have six or so brokers and internal staff. So we do a lot more than a hundred million these days. But the original gling to fame was the first the first level of a hundred million individually. there. When you say that, you mean a hundred million in loans to your clients. Is that in resident Ya, residential funded volume to our clients over a twelve month period? Right now there's many people that can do over that. But back back in lately to thousands, it was different, right, the chucket sizes were less and it wasn't as it is currently right now. Less people would use broker services and or broker or mortgage professional services and more ductious walk into a branch and do their deal. It's really changed the outlook of the industry in the past a few years there. Yeah, okay, that's interesting. I guess maybe as we go back in time and look at your history, the whole idea of going to a mortgage broker might not have been common. So if you kind of interesting to see when that POPs up. And obviously today, as we talk, it's very normal, but it wasn't always right. You used to walk into your brank and just ask for a loan, right. Yeah, so when I started, you know, I graduated from a Gill University. We start working at the bank moncial BEMO back in the day and you know, you did your your jobs, your standard opening BA accounts and standard job at the Banu. Yeah, and you would tell her that. Yeah, I was, you know, a Holler at the beginning. Throughout those years, mortgage brokering, more it's was called mortgage specialist and loan officer in the bank, and so I transition from a pure branch roll to like a loan officer role, and that was really really when the transition late was becoming where mortgage professionals were had like a specific designation. And yet specialist to specialize in that Tup of financing is. Previously, if you wanted a mortgage, you went to the bank. The rate was all the same for everybody and you know what percentage of financing you'd get. As it progressed that really there was a lot of different types of scenarios, as you said, self employed, you know, beacon scores, if I coal scorers, you know, depends on in odd residents, new immigrants, a lot of different types of situations where you would need more products and more specialty to deal with them. And then it was in two thousand and eighteen actually open my own brokerage, and so I worked in financial institutions up until two thousand and eighteen and two thousand and eighteen. I I went independent as a mortgage brokeache, a broker and a brokerage to have access to essentially all the financial institutions in the in the country, and I really gives our clients more options and a lot more chance of having the best product for their needs. There can we go all the way even before you're in university, when you're born and raised, you actually a local Montreal? Yeah, I yep, I was born in Montreal, raising Montreal. I puyed hockey before that was my previous whole career was was completely focused on hockey. So I didn't move away for a little bit and once, once I I was the hockey career, it was it lasted a couple of years but that was it. And then once I realized I was not making the NHL that I did the three sixties and I better go back to school and so I can make some money in life here Sokay, that's what I I was going to ask. Actually, were there or what were your your money role models growing up like? I guess the answer now. Clearly, hockey was plan a in terms of other members of your family or people you knew at the time? Did were you looking at how they were creating wealth and going all I see property as an option or see business as an option, or trading stocks or whatever it was that in your life at that early stage? Yeah, for sure. So I come from a family of entrepreneurs, for my grandfather who immigrated here from Greece, so we're Greek origin. But my father was born in Canada, Montreal, and I was born in Montelle. But and he was an entrepreneur. My father was an entrepreneur. They had some real estate and, you know, and and basically I've started when I was really young, just understanding the business, understanding, you know, it was different. Again, the leverage is is much more important now that it was back then, and it was, I think it's taken a whole new, you know, aspect here. But you know, so I over the years. I did under see that. I have learned though over the years and really that's part of, probably...

...the major reason why I did a three one hundred and eighty from from being a more hockey player and with dedic hating my whole life to that too. You know, okay, I have to go back to school. I want to want to get an education of want to understand, you know, finance, economics, you know, and so you know, that's really what what shift me there. Okay, so if your families fell entrepreneurs, what type of businesses did they have? You do all over the place? Yeah, so they know, they had they had supermarkets. So my grandfather had started a supermarket chain here in Montreal and then my father took it over and he it's his sold probably twenty years ago, so, but he so they are was always. They were always in the supermarket business and then they had some real estate on the side, but their main focus was really the supermarkets and back then there wasn't there the big chains and it was really lived the local supermarkets that were the big thing. and honestly, from a business perspective, I did see the transition and a supermarket business from all the small mom and pops to the big chain and how scales important and how, you know, the economies of scale and just really looking at things from a macro point of view versus mica point of viewers is really important, and that change the industry completely. That's part of the reason why they had to sell, because they couldn't compete with the with the big stores anymore in the pricing and that they have. So you never had the aspirations to get into the grocery chain business at all. No, no, I didn't want to stay in the valley business. And and and, realistically, well, they had sold the wall. I would think it was the university that had sold the stores. And so it again, it was too complicated family business and I, as you, want to stay out of it. I went completely my own, my own direction there, and I wear you know, when I graduate I didn't know what I wanted to do and I just sort of work at the bank because that's that was what the thing. It's a good job to work at the bank and then you sort of learned from from there. Okay. So, yeah, I can imagine you've seen a type of business, the grocery store business, which, let's be honest, it is probably not. I don't know if there's any similarities between the mortgage finance world and grocery. I'm must be some overlap that I don't know about, but it seems quite different when I when I think of my understanding of those two company. So you didn't really grow up thinking. Okay, even if the family grocery business is closing. I do want to get into retail or something like that. You were like, no, I'm studying finance and they'll see what happens. Get a job at a bank. So when you're in it's got. Yeah, it's more the Bat. I had no aspirations to the business and really I didn't know what I want to do when I graduated and I just wanted to I don't go towards investment banking do I go towards and doing a CFA and going towards the finance aspect, and I just bought myself some time by getting a chop at the bank and and really that that's where it opened a lot of opportunities for me and understood, really understanding the importance of financing and leverage and people's life, and that I really I loved it. I started enjoying it and that's really would would brought my career aspirations and how I could move forward there. So explain them. When you're actually in the bank, you know as an employee, obviously at the teller you're just getting customer service experience, but eventually you get the chance to move inside and do other types of roles. What was it that appeal to you with financing in particular? Well, I was pretty simple. So I did. I was, I al tell her, for a couple months and then I became a generalist. Right. So, like the financial service match, or they call it a Bema, and so you do a little bit everything. You Do, investing, bank accounts, lending, basic lending. And why I liked the financing part of it is really because people needed you. And I said, when investment, you know you put and I understand it's march more complex that, but put your money with a certain stock. You're relying on the stock and you know it's you're basically chasing people's money all the time and hoping that you know you can, you can raise this amount of money for your portfolio and go like that. But on the financing end, if you were creative, if you did use your brain and understand the rules of the of the bank, and another stands who what level, because often when I was in the bank, I'm like no, as for Polsy, you are allowed to improve this deal because of policy twelve point two, and and using that was just, I think, an advantage to me. So and then that's really what went forward Tom like do I go towards the investing or the financing side? And I'm like, well, people need me, they're going to request my service as much more. I won't be constantly chasing money. I'll be trying to get clients. But it's sort of snowballs after that. After you do a good job of one person there. HMM, Inter saying. Okay, so take us forward within the banking system. So you start getting into financing. What do you learn in financing? It's just bigger deals. As you get more trust, buiilt up, like how does it? How do you accelerate...

...in that type of career? It's really doing more deals, obviously doing the amount of deals, but it's all the complexity. Right. So I guess in the brank you you know, as you have more experience, to do more and more deals. But I did financing from commercial or we did some commercial financing when I was before mortgage specials. I did some my Beimo, but also, you know, big financing of the large towers of five hundred units, and so as you go you see the different situations of different people as you're as you specialize in it. Essentially everybody wants to buy, like when you have a condo building like obouls, because those big condo buildings in Montreal where you finance essentially everybody the they well, there's air way has different situations, right, and you see you'd have the non residents. You Go and put a certain month percentage down, invited, you have the difficult file. So you have a good global view of everything and at the same time, you know, I had a whole team and you know, and so you're able to do a lot of deals in a lot of touch a lot of different situations. There I'm curious to as you advanced then before you have your own mortgage brokers, we're still in the banking system. How does the how do you how you reward it? You just get an increase in sellar because it's no commissions are there for bank staff. No, there, it's yeah, it is commission. So after after I think twenty four months when I was in the branch, I said that's it, I want to I want to make some money. And it's a pure commission job when you work as a mortgage special slone officer in a bank, and and that's where I just took off right myself on from you know, ten times in one year. And and just you know, that's and then, Michael Gay, now let me, let me try to scale this and I believe from what the infrastructure that the institution had, which is be about, I love you, won't Great Bank. And it just I think I scaled as the Max that I could at the time and really I wanted to to scale this much further. And you know, banks are made a certain way, they have certain limitation of things that you can do and how you can do things, and that's I understand fully why they would do that. And and so essentially it was just a normal transition to owning a broker draft where you have, you know, sixty mortgage professionals that you're teaching them each, each one of them wanted to do, want to do one thousand, two hundred million dollars of allume, and you teaching me to how the different tactics and how to scale their own personal business. there. Okay, so, before we do switch to group orbits, you mortgage broker. Part of the story, though, if you went from whatever was to ten times that, I'm out, thanks to commissions, to questions a, how did you do that, like how do you just get out there and like network like crazy, and an orders is word of mouth, drive all these new people coming and asking for Teddy at your branch. And then second question to be an answer it afterwards. I'm assuming your own net worth was increasing at some point. You must be thinking, well, I'm also going to get into property, since that would be the logical thing to do with your own money as well. Yeah, so, yes and yes for both of them. But on the first, the first question, how I actually did it? When I was I was given an area. So mantal was given the lass Salvagne area. That was original area, which you would know. It's right. I am exactly and I had no idea about the are yet. I'd busited there a few times, very a couple of arenas, but I went for a drive and I really strategized. Really you're giving a computer, you're sending go get business, and there's actually not supposed to get any walkins from the bank. So you're essentially just point out and getting business externally and I just have my where'd your deals come from? Like, Oh, it will realtors touch the deal at first? Okay, so let me call the realtor offices here in las L and so I did call. I called every realise really state office and owners at the time, and I struck a couple deals with the different office is to actually have my own personal office in their office. And I still okay, well, your there's a hundred and fifty reelters here, if I rent an office here, that I'm going to meet them, I'm going to meet everybody, and then my chance of getting a deal as much high. And so the first you know, at first, I mean you have to go from office to office throughout the day, like if that's a lot office. Yeah, well, let's I ii Tru I had read the one big one at one big office and then that smaller ones of else. But I would try to manage my day accordingly where it'd go like one day here, the next day the other one, and and I would just sit there and I just talk to people and it just it just snowball front of that, because you would talk to somebody, you know, a couple times, three, four, five, six times. The eventually a deal comes. Eventually somebody makes a mistake in the market. There's one he goes his own bank or his client goes his own bank and you're not able to finance or the person doesn't call back or the person's on vacation. I'll get can be a chance and then that's when you get that chance. You can you can grow it and you can do a good job and then you can create a those relationships long term. And so I just I just it's numbers game, right.

I'm like, okay, if I wanted you, because the first it was like fifty million. was like fifty million. Was a top producer demo at the time. Off, I can do I don't know if I could do two deals a week, which is a five a hundred deals a year at three hundred and FIFTYZERO dollars a deal on making thirty undred thirty five million. Okay, Great. So let's concentrate on getting a certain to three leads a week to fund that. and quickly it grew much fast on that and and that's, you know, that's where it's really to change my life, because you're making a lot more money just to survive, right, and I was a young guy, so all the money was making, it was really you know, I was investing at all, and that's essentially when I started just buying different properties because for me, it was just instead of Keeba bag bank account, instead of putting them in stock market. I really wanted to invest in the properties, sort of like q yarrow or July. I find I I like them. It's interesting and and you learn over the years. You know what works with this one, where I've made some mistakes, I've made some great buys and especially this is a great time toad to own real estate with the with the market rate and the markets going, I'm going much higher than it was even twelve months ago and so and I've used that and I've learned a lot of I learned US also for my own personal properties that I've owned. there. Okay, can we go back to your first property. Do you remember which one I was? Yes, yes, it was. It was Alex in the Utramo area, I. Montreal us. Okay, and do you remember the details of the deal and like what year that was? That was two thousand and eight, maybe two thousand Seventyzero and eight on there. And and I just you know, I bought it with my father, actually fifty and we put a half the money each and we still we got it and renovated it and we sold it. We made a little bit of money, but it would just okay. I'm like, okay, we spent the thing a little bit too much money in the renovations and I will, I'd refinance that. I kept it and I learned about penalties because actually we financed it and then, you know, had a five year fixed mortgage Palet in mortgage trade and I wanted to sell it after a year or two and the pealty was like thirty or forty grads, like I'm spend forty grant to break this mortgage here, and then I realize, okay, maybe you know, maybe they're after after taking consideration penalties, when I'm taking financing and and learning it. But it was, it was. It was my my first one. Wasn't okay, but I didn't lose money. Didn't make that much money. Was it was good to learn too. But then that I learned a few different aspects after that sounds like a flip rather than, you know, by a Burr as is gone to keep. It was as to keep and we're just I didn't want partners off. That's so I just looked. My Dad was let's just sell it and we'll go on from they're basically yeah, sorry enough, now makes sense. I think my first property I bought with my mom too, and then I bought her out too. Too Confusing exactly? There you go. Yeah, confusing is a nice way to put it. Yeah, so, okay, interesting. Just to circle back, though, to the networking and getting an office and all these real estate agencies is a way to get clients. Currently, if I'm wrong, but ten Xing your sales at the age you are at would not have been common right, probably still not even common today. So what makes teddy even that Teddy, not today, but going back that younger teddy when he's still working at the bank. What made him different? Well, what I did is I when I first became a mortgage specialist, that's the title I basically I looked at the top two three people around me in my bemo and I went took them up for lunch and I wanted to understand what makes them the best. Right in, one person is a networking, the other person is it? You know, the deal knowledge. Another person is it. How do you mark it to your realtors and and so forth. So you know, I did a lot of I analyze a lot of people. I read every book there was on orgages and these with the names in two thousand and know seven but that. But I read, I googled, I guess Amazon, I put an Amazon all the different books out there and I've actually read them at the just buy books. That by books and and so I really created something that I wanted. I created it with business plan, and I think what what made me different than others is really stick sticking to it and not giving up. It's another some days that are tough if you actually have a business planet and your business plan's going to switch after you know, thirty days had the removed some things and that and some things. But essentially I was were there from nine am till nine pm every day working in the office and I was consistent about that and you just you if you're consistent and use them, doing the right methods and you're actually constantly analyzing your business and making little tweaks to it, you're able to do that and that, with the market, was good at the time. I think that there was not many people...

...were soliciting people like that way. I was not just like a used car salesman type of thing, but it was more, you know, I was creating relationships and and just just constantly doing the same thing, doing the right things always been present. For me. It made a big difference and then it just snowballs after that, because then it just once you created a base and those people tell the others and you know and it just doubled your after that and it just continued going from from that. That part of the point of view year so and understanding out how to use a team, because back then nobody had assistance. Are Maybe some people had one assistant, but after a couple years I actually had like a six assistants. I just hired, hard, hired and it. I just created a whole team of people that were helping me and analyze my business, saying, okay, I make money if I speak to somebody. I don't make money when I'm king in the application, when I'm asking the client for peace to one, where to where it is? Where's my value? When I'm giving advice, when I'm talking to realtors, Um and that's that's essentially how how am I in it? It's the best way of operating. Yeah, it's interesting. I didn't realize a mortgage broker within a big bank is almost like their own business owner, like if it's all this commission based you're growing your own team which work for you. I assume you employed them in the bank. Didn't imploy them, right. So, yeah, okay, interesting switching back in the Bank of Portland, but I paid for okay, yeah, it's almost like a franchise in some ways, right, like you get to use the bank. It was a I did. I didn't think about the franchise. Essentially, I did have predictions of me in the year, revenues, my expenses. You know, yet you've been employed, employees, you have six employees of office, as you have if expenses right, and then. So I knew what my numbers were, what my average commission is going to be and how much. I predicted the following year right. And I did that every year and it just really helped me focus and understand where I want to go and get myself goals. And and again, when you make a big check, you know, let's see, you make a tenzero check, you don't just give up. That's all. People just make ten, twenty, thirty grands. o You all. Let me. Let me take a month off here. So that's that's not what I you know what was happening there. You know, it's quite a parallel to realistic agents as well. I'm thinking of Anna, who's my age and to introduce me to you. She tells me similar stories. You know, it's like how hard does she works? Just she hires assistance and yeah, very similar business model. But I like to go back to your own investing side of this because, all right, you did the first deal with your dad, then you sold it and you learned from that. Okay, I'm going to go solo. How did you continue to invest? Was it still plexus like we was there a reason why you were choosing those kind of properties? Yeah, so in Montreal there, you know, as you know, plexes are a big thing where you have, you know, three, four tenants or your apartments and one building by the building. I like that strategy. What I had, you know, had a little bit of vacancy problem. Moved from all the time, and I said, okay, I'm not going to buy properties where I'm going to worry about getting a tenant in there. I'm gonna Buy Properties where I'm comfortable. I understand it and and I basically went to the MC guild around MC guil and they bought a lot of these student housing buildings around there because, and I want to worry about vacancy and be I think. I think that they're undervalued. Some of them were. You can the students will pay a lot of money because you're right next to the school. Doesn't matter what happens. And you know, covid actually a good example. People still want to go to school, people want still want to live there. You know, it's almost like even durm covid we didn't think we had any one or two vacancies. been minimal, like it was very, very minimal versus some of the other buildings out there. So I had a strategy of what I wanted and whatever came on the market I want and I want a bout. And then you create a team, because I'm not going to start managing and properties and go to pick up rents and if a heaters broken, to go to go fix it up. So you create an infrastructure of a team and everything. So I would team ortgages at a team in my in my property management, and that's how you can scale both them right, and that's true. Essentially. I think that's how any businesses, or you can't do everything yourself, get to basically trust people and let them leverage your time like that. Okay, so your strategy going back then with the property was really student housing, Multi Unit buildings, buy and hold. You weren't planning on flipping and are the anything at Ben by whole refinance after three four years and by another one and then keep on scale. Okay, right. So one of my main complaints as a new person to Montreal, having come from Australia, I think you've heard me say this, is management of a rental properties, where in Australia every real estate agent has a rental management unit and you just choose which real estate agent you want to go to and you literally just hand your properties over...

...to them and they will collect the rent, do the inspections, you know, hire any contractors. Everything is completely handsoff. They just deposit the rent expenses. I come to Montreal not as common to find that kind of service. They do exist, but few and far between and it seems like not the most thriving industry, let's put it that way. Back when you started, did you have to basically build and train a team of just people you hired or were did you hire an agency back then? Like what did it look like for management the first few you're like, I was doing it. And then as I grew I did get I don't want partners, but they get a few people in that were owning it with me that would manage it. Okay, so it's you have a small port, like they put some money in, but you have a small piece. But you'd also managed the building. I give a CERTA amount of money to manage the building, and so so every building had it's a couple partners, therefore, that who would manage it. And then and then today we have a team, right, we have like from that many units, but we have a team of three or four. I've a partner that I do buy my properties with that is essentially an entrepreneur as well and a different domain. But and then, so we have our infrastructure, but it does take a little bit of time to do in that that's really like again, you know, you almost need to buy to get to a level where you can have a full time employ to to manage the properties. You're right that there are a few rental companies here, like my mental man of property matgic companies, but it's, you know, it's a little costly and it's not as user friend it's as popular as it a lot of people do themselves here and that's that's what it is. Some realtors do it, but it's it's not as it's not like that much of a business. But I think that you know, you have you having your own employees. It's as much easier to control them and to to you know. So which you know? which point, like, did you feel you were comfortable to hire a person, I. As an employee for your like? Did you feel like, I have to have ten doors or twenty doors or x number of cash flow when I can go that was like a revenue right, like if you're if you're if you have any five hundred thous a grosser revenue and a five percent, it's like twenty five grand or so. So okay, I can have somebody maybe part time or like half their time is there than half the time of doing something and then sort of so grow from there. Right, because you know, that's why I's wry about the ghetto, because then me go ghetto. That's this location, because there I would buy building. The rents would be threezero dollars a unit. So threezero. I'd buy four units. would be was it Twelvezero, a hundred, two hundred and a hundred and forty fourzero year of gross revenue where it's like okay, you know what, like okay, I need a couple of these and I'll be okay. And I didn't want I didn't want to manage the units that were like six hundred a month or seven hundredllars a month that were just low value for me. I want to to manage the high value, the high ticket sizes. And if, from a you know, again parallel to mortgage propering, obviously want to have the bigger mortgages right, because you make more money in the same amount of effort, the same mentality from from investing, where I'm like okay, you know what, if I have a building that I have a sort of my revenue, versus buying one little condo where I can it's only like six hundre allars a month, it's a lot, the same amount of management, some amount of time, but you know, I can afford somebody when I have a large revenues versus smaller us than okay makes sense in turn of like your long term strategy with property or and maybe even today, and this the whole aggression. Have you always had this kind of I'm going to buy one? You something a year, or is it when a deal comes to you? Or are you actually looking every day? Because obviously you run a mortgage brokerage. Even before that you were running essentially a mortgage broker, it just under BEMO. That was your day job. So you can't be sitting there searching centrist, which is our version of, you know, Zilo, whatever you want to call it, in for searching properties. Or you had access to the MLS, right? That what it's called, in counter to I think. Yep. So you know you can find properties, but that's not your job, so to speak. So how did it? How did you treat that as is it a side hustle for you? What was the focus? As you create relationships, the opportunities come by you. Right, and yes, I do, and my job is not just mortgage broker. I own a mortgage brokerage, but I don't dedicate hundred of my time to it, towards that, and I don't want to because I want to grow. I dedicate let's say eighty percent, eighty five percent of my time, I would still live it. Fifteen, twenty percent time to real estate and I sort of Split my day up like that and I do want to you know, maybe not a ten month type of thing, I do want to have some mom my time because if and I'm not looking, if you're not searching for it in it's not going to happen. And I do look at centrist often or matrix, I do. I do get the emails from the real tears who say I have a new listing on. I'm fully aware, though maybe not a hundred hundred percent.

My time is there, but I'm fully aware what's happened to market. I enjoy it, you know. So I enjoy you know, instead of watching a TV shows, I'll, you know, analyze a certain area. What's happened the market here. Do I look at it every single minute every day, know, but the good opportunities, they'll all get an email for it. And and I'm always looking to, you know, find a way to maximize my cash position, but refinancing and you know, and not over leveraging, but having some money available that if there is an opportunity then I can jump on it there. Speaking of refinancing, question I've always wanted to ask you, Teddy, so a great chance I can do this. What do you see as the appropriate timeframe for refinancing, is it something you should constantly be doing, like once every year or two, or is it purely based on market conditions? You see a better interest rate, then you do it, or even just personal conditions. You have a property situation where you have to refinance, whatever renovations like. What's your strategy or even advice to clients, I guess, nowadays. So that's a good question. It really depends on the person and the risk tolerance. You know, I don't like refinancing to a point where the new mortgagement's going to be more than the revenues are going to bring into your there's a loss in the property. Try To, you know, manage that a little bit and unless you're a really good investment somewhere else, that's going to offset that. But you know, you try not to do that to over leverage yourself, because if there is a down to the market and you essentially are breaking even, then it took it. You can hold it an extra year too. Does it make a difference if the value go down the next day or the next month? Really you're going to hold it for the time necessary, as long as you can cover your rents, as long as your cash falls okay, you'll be you'll be fine on that end. We have terms, as you see, as you know in Canada the states is very different and I don't know all the other countries by the US is very different. Here there's plonies are a big thing. You don't want to take something that's too long term and you don't want to you you want to hedge against in rising instrate. So you want some maybe not too short term. So yet comes into plate right. I don't want to refinance a property and to pay like a Fiftyzero pality and unless it's worth it for me based on the interest rates at the time. But I try to avoid wasting money like that and you know, you try to try to time it properly from the rate is the rate and you know rates change every day. But it's really a for me it's a cash full of the property that's important and then if I can maximize it, and I don't. I'm not living off my property, so it's not like a need to have a certain revenue for my properties to to sustain my lifestyle. My properties are for my long term wealth. My everyday revenues from my right for my Busini operating business and so when I look at it like that, I'm able to take a little more risk on what I buy where. You know what, maybe that's not casual positive right now, but if I improve this the that, then I'll make a lot more money in a year. So I'm able to take that sort of risk on that and versus having a return immediately on the property that have to buy. You know you can't because if I fight by profit, it's undervalid right now that I think that the rents aren't there and I fix it up in eighteen months, twenty four months and they can refinance then, right, and then I can take the money back and invested somewhere else, if I might. Property that S maxed out. I kept refinance in two years. You know it's well, I'm going to at ten grand, twenty grand out of it's not worth it. You know you want it. You want to basically depends on the proper that you own. Okay, I have a lot of finance questions, but I want to continue back in your story and I'll save the finance ones for as to get past that. So you spend ten years at BMO and I think it was three years ago you decided to I say branch out, but it's almost like you just no longer work with BMO. You Start Your own thing and you can work with every bank. How does it work? How do you transition? Like do you lose all the Beau? I know with with mortgages there's like the commissions are trailing, so it's like an ongoing thing, not always in up front one time thing. So if you switch over to start your own, the only tell me how did you make that decision to switch over when you're working for Vmol? Actually, commissions are up front here and in Canada the majority. There's a men very minimal that they're trailing, but it's mostly up front. So you are building your revenue every year. In and two thousand and seventeen I had my mortgage broker's license for in Canada for a quite a while, Mutchelle for quite a while, but I did never activated it and I was also looking, always looking for the right opportunity. And then in two thousand and seventeen I had the fortunate opportunity of meeting a mentor of mine, as name is John Barges, and so John, he's the owner of Symbic, which called the coalition of independent mortgage pokers Canada and CEO is the legend here in Canada from the mortgage front and you know, we had a really good conversation and really his vision and as long term look are match what my vision was and I did always want to do more. I felt for to...

...three years I was sort of maxed out and they can do much more. Of all into what I was doing, but with with John's visions and its coaching, tight to interrupted in this curious why is it Max Dolly? What is the thing that stops you when you're in a bank? Because you have to talk to every client and you only have to ser amount of hours in the day that you can do that. So if you're going to talk to I think I was, I was doing but eight hundred clients a year or so at the end where I was doing at applications, a certain percentage of it was funding, but you know, it's speaking to eight hundred people and that's application to you to speak to what more people to actually get it your your time is limited. You can't hire brokers, I mean no, not the bank as a broker, as a mortgage broker you can, and that's where I'm like, okay, well, if I take this method that worked for me and I can coach the right people of the right mindset in the right infrastructure, and that was where John came in. Where is his brokerage over can Ontario, Toronto and and the rest of the Canada really have? It's really good infrastructure that he has. As use that infrastructure, I can coach the right people. We have the best of both worlds and I can help them scale their business and I'm essentially scaling my business the same time through them. And really that's how we can get a much bigger there. Okay, so how does the that's conceptually why you do it in terms of practical how do you do it practically? Yes, go tell bm I quit and then you buy yourself. Oh well, does it work? I had heard it for for was about six months preparing it. You know, the branding. It's because it's all mine. Right orbits is a hundred percent, you know, mine, and I had to discreate the brand, I to quit the everything and I was sort of preparing myself over those that Amout of time, and then just one day I just went in and and I'm like now the next few weeks is the time because I actually gave birth my wife keeper through my daughter, and and so I'm like, you know what, I have making two weeks off the bank just because I'm in. I can think. I'm like, you know what, when I came back, I'm done, I'm going to just make the transition. Called up John's. Okay, I'm going to join it in two weeks. And then I walked into the bank and I spoke to my boss the time, who actually now works with me and she works as as a manager in my team. But I spoke to time and I said this and this, this, these are my plans. If, if you want, I will give you two week notice, because I know that I had a lot of the builders and mount you all that I was managing and everything I said. You know, I'm not competing against you. It's completely different and I'm not point to another institution. I'm really starting my own thing and they actually get me on for two weeks to help them just usually they'll just fire somebody immediately. Our just tell you to go home. But I helped, you know, the transition to create. You know, I wanted to leave on good terms and and being in the rate. You know, mindset with them and everything, and so it did end very, very well. They knew that it was sort of they essentially had a feeling that this there was a time when I was going to leave them and then I basically want that one day and I said I'm gone. And you know, then I had to start creating the relationships at the other banks. So I had relationships that BEMO, but in a relationship shot Scotia, back at td bank, at these are to, you know, at all the different institutions, hearing home, trust that coruble at the crat, to rebuild those those relationships. And you know, I did it all pretty quickly, but it was all very hectic time, but it was, you know, it was all worth it there, okay, yeah, I can imagine bemo wants to keep you on side too, because hopefully you're going to send them still some Deios, even though you know longer going to be a hundred percent them. Well being was actually one of the banks that doesn't work with mortgage brokers directly. So it's not like the they do fund some some of the virtual unders in the back in but they don't work with mortgage bokers directly. There's a Cud, there's a couple institutions. I don't do the right so you you were a clan bood relationships with the mean. How? So we don't own the clients, but we still good relationships. Okay, right enough. So you go out on your own, you knock on a few doors with other banks and say hey, I'm teddy, I own group Orbis, looking to create relationships for possibly sending clients to you, for from mortgages. I'd love to know at this point too, because this correct me if I'm wrong. Would be the time where you also could expand the scope of your clientele to potentially service people like me? where? Because I would have not been able to go to BML when I first looked for a finance. I. As you taught me, there's this thing called a lenders and be lenders, a lenders being the main banks, be lenders being alternative finance sources which I use for my first few loans. That must have been now available to you as well, which opens up new clientele. Is that kind of what you have to do? Then make a lot of relationships and the open up your marketing to New People. So, first of all, the for the lender relationships I was I was had the relationship with the John Bar just and in some bike, so I was able to leverage their relationships across all of Canada to create the finance the financial institutions and maintain those and just...

...grow on it. So that was I was okay on that and it was yeah, creating the the network of new clients, where it was a great because we still had the clients coming I still had a team and I brought some people the team over. I still had the clients coming in, but now we were able to open up two more different types of situation where it's sort of rebuild your business. And really for the first six to twelve months I was actually doing mortgages and that was growing it and I've limited that a lot more now, like it's just very limited to who I actually it's where I manage the firmare a. back then it was going out to reals or saying if you use your person at Xy said bank and he gets refused, you're calling gets refused. Sent to me off on a solution and I said we essentially could approve anybody in Canada if they put twenty percent down. And now the questions not if it's going to get approved. It's a what is the rate right? Is it at one and a half percent or is that fifteen and a half percent? And so it's it's suwhere or somewhere in between. So we do have the a banks, we have the alternative be banks and we have the private lenders and their institutions or like. It's not just somebody who's a private lender going to, you know, want to break your legs or anything. It's something better. Yeah, that are you know that are specialize in this russ of Canadas called Mix and hearing Quebec. It's it's really like it's just companies here. But and so having the scope of products available is key for me because then you will never lose a client a they're not going to get a better rate than what you're offering and be you're never going to lose a client from, you know, an approval perspective. Before it was pushing them to prove the deal. Hopefully they proved the deal. Let's position it. Now it's what's your situation? Well, these two three banks are the best for your situation. And here the rates right, and it's a different process and I had to actually retrain myself how a cell, because it's not. It was in the same mindset as what, here's the rate, I here's your in push them to try to prove it, pushing to dry. I get the best right now. It's like no, I'm not going to push a bank. You give me your options, all the different stitutions, and and reposition the client with the right institution based on their needs. So it's much more client friendly where you're on the client side and not, you know, sell into a clients like the client comes as like we're together, this is this, this is the Strut and, like with you, for instance, this is the strategy, right, and I think we had discussed that. This is a strategy going forward. I think we're going to do this after someone time is going to go here, and so I go here, and so we and I think it did work out and and and that's that for me, is situation is like that, where you've clients for life after. Is the key thing. That's really how we've done that. Okay, so with group Barb's, suddenly you're the man in charge now of your own brand, your own company, and, like you said, one of the main goals was to train people. So you had a team of mortgage brokers. So no longer it's teddy doing eight hundred clients a year himself, it's maybe the entire firm is doing, I don't know, five thousand clients a year, but we've got five mortgage brokers or ten mortgage brokers etc. Can you take you back to the first person you hired as a more orgage broker and how did you imbue them with the teddy methodology, like how did you pass on what you know? It's it's a good question. So what I started able two thousand and eighteen and really the I told myself for the first twelve months I'm going to understand this business and learn it before getting people to join, because I want to actually get them value and not just sell to them. So I did have my team of assistant and whatever, but I think a month and a friend of mine, he I knew personally because a I met a mortgage bokern another firm. I'd like to join you, I said, Brandon. I said I can't right now. I don't even know what I'm doing, however, right now. So give me, give me a few months and I'll touch base with you and we'll go like that. So after about, you know, two three months, I think he calmed he called me again and if I was okay, now come on board. So for the first about twelve months it was just people that I knew that were joining me. So it was actually easier because they were just sitting next to me. This is pre covid so they're sitting next to me, you know, where I'm like client calls and m listen and they would listen to the conversations, how I would talk to talk to the client, how would position it, and it was really like hands on learning. It wasn't there's any specific method to it at the time. Now it's much more, you know, there's a whole process. But I don't know why, ty, I'm thinking wolf of Wall Street with you sitting there listening to your protege and then yelling at him and that sort of stuff. No yelling, yea, but yeah, it's listen. It was. We try to. I do try to create their good thing, LEBL of water. It's like sort of the environment of people trying. I'm working hard and everything and and so I do want to create a fun environment that people do work hard and that's the mind I do only hire people that want to achieve good...

...volume. There's many different types of people and I respect people say, you know what, I want to do this part time. That's fine, but they don't fit my model and we don't hire them here. So we want people that think similar to how we think here. And so then it was just in about twelve months after I started and made a conscious effort of saying, you know what, I'm not going to do mortgages anymore, I'm just gonna I'm going to perfect this type of thing. And I think that was a time, I think when you came on or so. But so the people who want to existed relationships with I would maintain those relationships, but anybody knew I just give to my team. And that was really how we started to scale this, because then I created a training program from new brokers. Then I hired managers. Then I know. So now we're sixty, seventy people and our orbits and you want to just double this in the next twelve months and and you know. But you needed infrastructure, you a you need knowledge. And then I think I acquired it over a certain money ears and then specialty when I was in the broker business for about twelve months and then I'm like, okay, I have the knowledge, I have the relationships. My mortgage pokers are making the most buddy money in the business. Let's scale this and that's really how we know how we did that and create, to again, an infrastructure of people to when the onboard, what's the process? You know when you want to week one, what do you learn? Week three? What's the training leg and they create an environment for success to help them achieve their goals. There it must be of a different role for you, because you were kind of like the front facing mortgage broker guy and now you're the CEO of a team of sixty plus. You spent a lot of your time hiring a training and probably far less time talking to clients. Is If you enjoy being a CEO rather than a broker. I guess it's the way to put it. It's a completely different job and a Mayan. That's what I always wanted to do. I believe that's the only way it can grow properly and and speaking clunch is great. You know, I actually like having a success stories and hearing how I help people out and it's great, like it's you know, it just it's limited my ton that I can actually do that and that I won't get my ultimate goal, you know, to doing that long term. So, but I do love what I do and I love seeing some of the brokers are come in and, you know, they're making those they're doing. It's a ten million of volume one year and the next year they come into all they're doing thirty million of volume and and it just really their life changed in the past twelve months because financially they've tripled the revenue and they're making a lot and it's like, okay, having those successes are also great, right. And what should you deal with? Different challenges that you know you'd never dealt with as an employee. Right, you deal with every day a you know, thinking about things that you never thought about when you're like, you know what to think about that? From a h our perspective, from a regulatory perspective, from everything, right, there's a lot of different things that you are not responsible for, as you know. Maybe the listeners don't realize that, maybe they do. Canada, especially the last I don't know for five years, has gone through an absolute boom in property prices and property volume training. Obviously that's been a boost to your company as well, with a number of mortgage is constantly coming through you. I am curious, though, with group Barber's now particular, have you had to come up with a different or more robust marketing side of your firm to bring in the clients, because now you've got no longer just teddy as an agent you have or broker, you have, whatever it is. Twenty, thirty, forty, fifty people all needing leads. That's a lot more lead flow. Maybe the answer is because the market was so booming you had too many coming in. Or did you have to build a more substantial marketing angle? Or do they always go out there and work themselves? are like little teddy's back in the day they would do all the relationship building and bring in their own clients. From a company perspective, a hat to shift the marketing to a brand marking, not just around myself like originally when I was bemo and this not i Wass about me right, and so pictures of me and whatever. then. Now it's it's consciously just a brand thing and a koring that awareness and it's nothing like if you don't know, you wouldn't know that I own it right. So it's not online like under me, but from a hot would. I had to build from marking perspective. I do have a good relationships with different realtors and office and owners over on the island and and even provincially, where I did leverage those relationships and they created corporate relationships for all my mortgage pokers, for they'll go into an office of, you know, via capital, for instance, and which is a agency down here, and so we've made you, as my realtors, have access to that office right and they you know, there's a certain commission split based on that. And so I've opened a lot of doors for the realtors, for the mortgage pokers, with realtors and and yeah, and I have coach them to go out and get their own business as well, where they they need to...

...have a mix of their business where they get leads from us, they get the referral sources from us, but also they get their own real sources, because you never know which one's going to draw up one day. Okay, and and just having to diversify where all your volume customers is very important. Does that include like social media, paper, Click Advertising, searchings and optimization? Going on podcast to talk about things. Is that sort of in the marketing mix as well? A little bit we do. We do have a team of a couple that managed our social media account. That helps us, you know, with ads, with stuff like that, and we are doing that a little bit. We you know, in especially in this business here in Canada, it's very expensive from a because the banks are spending all this money on Google ads, you know. So it's like Hey, I'm can compete against EMOT and they're spent online there. So it's almost you how do you position yourself? You're not going to position yourself as a rate game because there's, you know, corporate entities that have a lot more funds than I do to in that space. So I positioned myself with the realtors and that's where I think there is a lot of value, with the ref not just realtors, but referral sources as a whole. And yes, we do the branding online, we do some facebook ads, we do some of that stuff, but the relationships with the owners of different novices in the firms is how we can create those credible more long lasting because, you know, we're not constantly spending money to possess ourselves on ranking first or whatever it is there, you know, and so sort of balance that. Okay, I'll tell must back to Teddy Day one, when you first started as a brokery within DMO. You were yeah, yeah, okay, interesting. I do want to switch to a few financing questions, but I do have one question about your brokerage and just the whole mortgage industry to in the future. And this is primarily because I've been maybe a little too deep in the future of like blockchain and AI and so on, in particular with defy. So, you know, decentralized finance, and I think about a business like here's Teddy. So you know you're I don't know that the numbers, but you're taking commissions, your agents are taking commissions, the banks are taking commissions. Is like o this pie that's getting sliced up along the way and who knows, the bank might be going behind to another, you know, lending source, whatever the case may be. With defy we remove all these middle people and I'm foreseeing potentially a future. I don't know if you think about this or not. You might not have any answer for this, but a potential future. One day, as a client I go to a decentralized financial source. There's only one source. It's like a you know, a group of token providers, cryptocurrency. It is borrow from that. I don't borrow from a bank, I don't Bor from individuals. That is, borrow from this decentralized organization, as do other people, and it kind of runs itself. Theoretically. That is where we're heading with defy. Do you keep on top of any of that? You are you just in any of it? Is it you see yourself adapting some technology in the future, even within your brokerage? I think yes, let'St I think that in the past ten years it's completely changed. The funding sources of changed here in Canada and I think that incunate's a little bit different because it's so protected. Is Not that many institutions and really there's one way to securitize it. It's a little convlate it. So I think it's a huge opportunity in the future and that's why being a broker from about myself is very important, because we give advice, we're not reliant on one certain source of financing and I do think that there is a ton of opportunity out there for four different sources of funding with it, whether through defy or or through other lenders coming to Canada, or through different ways to make it more efficient, because, yes, there is a lot of waste of money through efficiencies here, and there's many different reasons why it's like that. From a regulatory perspective, where it's very tight knitted's controlled, that might be one of the one of the hurdles for defies that the regulatory environment here, especially in Quebec, is tough right and and they want to make sure in Canada as a whole, you know, they want to protect the system and protect the situations there. And and really depends on what the cost of funds is from the defied perspective, and that is that's also important because, you know, the banks are have ways to actually have very cheap cost of funds out there, especially in this environment, and it's very hard to compete with that and with the amount of money that they currently have. And they will protect themselves, I'm sure you know, to make to make sure they protect our market are at all costs everything and it's almost like a you know, they could borrow very cheaply from the Banchana and and it's hard to compete against that and that's that's that's the biggest hurdle. However, we talked about the alternative space, we talked about the private spay. These are spaces that I think...

...there's not that many funding sources and there could be a huge opportunity, especially with with different and the different sources, especially liked fire. There's a whole market out yeah, that's point. Of course, if inflation kicks in, suddenly that landing source isn't so cheap for the banks and so forth as well. So, you know, example, both ways. You never going to happen. But I think that just the amount, the way they underrate deals is changed tremendous in the past fifteen years and I think that the next ten fifteen years it's me huge and I believe we're well we're well positioned as mortgage brokers because it we don't care where whatever's best for the client. If whether it's BEMO, these are not SCO show, or whether it's X Y Z, you know, Defy Company, whatever it is that's better for arrel, we're gonna go here, and that's that's her. That's your best bet here. You know. So I are and that's why I actually saw a guy not from the defy but I saw that there was a huge change in the environment of financing. That's really why I was looking for a change from BEMO, because I don't want to be relying on one lender. I want to have access to the full industry and I want to I don't want to tell somebody who just came from Australia saying, you know what, we can't get your mortgage here. Yeah, but I want to put a big now, payment doesn't matter, we can't get your mortgage here, coming back in three years. No, I want tell somebody I have a solution, here's a strategy, this is how we're going to do this and that what we're do this together. We're going to get there. Just be patient. Within eighteen to twenty four months you'll be at your goal, basically know, and that's I think you know. It's a long term and play for us. It's a little funny to think about this, but if defy was an option where there is no institution, it's just this digital body of where you can borrow money from, you would still be a consulting layer, because there's obviously going to be a trust issue, especially early on where people won't feel comfortable. Well, some people will, the early adoptors will, but the majority of the population will be like, I'm not borrowing from this mythical digital doesn't have a branch or brand name or, you know, a company or a country or government backing it up. It's just computers and you come in and you kind of take them through the process, show them out works, and that could be where, you know, you have a fee on top of things rather than a commission. Yeah, not, you give value. Right here we're giving value. We are protecting the client from whatever he's going to do, because obviously, if there's a thousand different financing sources or ways to get financing, well, how do you clarify that? Right, although it's a decentralize of an environment. So what's the best thing for me, for my situation, for my goals? We're going to well, at this source, but we're going to do like this. And you know, and so I think that they're like it's going to progress over the years and won't be overnight. I think it takes time here, especially in Canada. But yes, there is, there is going to be a very big wave of changes that really coming to this supplement and that's why there was a report recently from from from BEMO actually, and for the mortgage poker market for Canada ou where the talked about the current market share and they believe it's going to mimic Australia. Actually, are banking system follows Australia. After think USHULI has about ten percent more market share in the more mortgage worker space than here. So I think that they believe the mortgage worker space, where it's sort of, you know, advice driven, is going to grow versus the people walking into the branch and I think it's going to grow even more over the years and everything. Yes, you got to get to your your Seo. I've going to let content other teddy. I have a friend back in Australia. He was on the podcast as well. He's the founder of a company called Finder and they're basically like an online education resource for comparing every type of loan, whether it's credit cards or banks or even cryptocurrency options. So and they do so well because of the every single google search for, you know, which credit card is better, which bank loan is better, shows up his company finder. But Anyway, that's we've talked about. The future here. I like to kind of maybe in the last few minutes. I know you've been here an hour early. Appreciate your time, Teddy, bring it back to today. So let's discard the future and define everything and look where we're at now, especially for I guess I'm switching to the people you help here and all the questions they might have. I can ask a few. First of all, why do you think property, and I'm not just saying for Canada but just as a general asset class, is the best or a good option? Since obviously you put a lot of your it sounds like most of your investment outside your own business has been in property. I don't know if you're in cre though. I don't know if you're in stocks or about their companies, but I'm assuming it's mostly property. Why do you still see property is a great choice for people? Well, yes, I do have some stocks and stuff like that, but I a lot. The majority is in real estate. Why? Because I think property has proven over the past x amount of years to me to be very safe, especially here in Canada. It's been in a safe investment. You can leverage it. It's easy to leverage versus,...

...you know, stocks, a little more competent to let because of Leveragehip, but not not as much leverage as you can currently get here, and people can consort of reach for higher levels by doing that. I believe that people like to touch something and have say that I own that and not like I own sixty five shares of xyzt bank or whatever it is. And so I think that people like to actually have a tangible asset that they're able to touch and and I believe that there's a comfort level, like the people feel safe with real safe. I know that, you know, in the states and whatever, there's a huge downturn in the like s there, but again it came back. The rebounded and I feel it's a very I think it's a safe investment. Again, can be over the leverage? You can't. You know, you bet the future on on everything. But if you do it intelligently and you're able to you know, to really understand the market, then then you'll make you can make a lot of money here, especially with leverage. You can make a lot of money. And and so that's really why I believe people are venturing trend and more now because Abe so many people that live somewhere as well right like you're not gonna whatever happens in the other company. It's a business. People need to go home and somewhere to sleep, somewhere, and that's essentially the base of the base of real estates, you know. You know people have to live somewhere. With the population I was growing there's will be always more demand for for real estate that I have a kind of angry girlfriend right now because she's like in that millennial group who have watched their parents properties all go en x in the last whatever number of years and now they're priced they feel like they're priced out of the market, especially with a standard salary job, and the expectation is maybe this will happen, but I don't know if we're going to get another ten x run in property values to compare to what you know, the boomer generation enjoyed. How do you suggest people who are right now looking at their first purchase, especially from the finance situation, because how much they can borrow? You know what their stress test is for how much they can handle and repayments. What's the potential for future growth? How we Max as the as it's grown so much, how much more going to grow? Is always the classic question. How do you advise and talk to people like that? What do you suggest they do, you know, assuming they have like a five percent to posit it, but it's big chunk of their net worth. First of all, I think you have to whatever you bow, i. especially to live, is has to be within your budget. So you make yourself a budget. You're saying I can afford to grand a month, whatever it is. So then to grand a month equals x amount of mortgage and then, if you have five percent, means x amount of value of property value. So like, okay, well, that's my comfort zone, that's where I can buy. And you look for the areas that you can that you can live it right. And don't force yourself to live downtown Montreal, because you know, because I want to be downtown Montreal, and but my budget is another region of it. Now, live within your means, right. So then, once you have your price range, you have an oput give a decision to make. Do I get a smaller place with the better location, that we get a larger place on a location? It's a little bit more and more limited, right, and and that is I can't decide that for anybody. I you know, and everybody has their own their own wants in their own needs. I always tell people just buy within your means, do not buy too high, and then just be realistic of what what you can buy, because, you know, we don't for searching for properties for a million bucks if your budget is five hundred thousand dollars, and all of the banks may be going to prove you and we can find a way. So it doesn't make any sense to do that, you know, and so just really buy within your means, whatever is possible and coming back to if you think it is can be ten X. it's hard to predict the future, but it's what I'm I think it's going to be stable. I think that, you know, maybe it will also firsture can't continue like the way it is right now, but it will slow down. But will it go to negative en x? I don't think so. I'm up again. I'm not betting on that with my my holdings, but I think that it's going to go slow, especially here, and get back it's going to go up, you know, slower pace. I think the rest of Canada will be very similar to that. There's still lack of supply and that's that's a huge huge problem down here, and so the demand is maintaining. It's probably going to grow even more with immigration, with with all the you know, covid sure hopefully ending soon and everything. So I am I am very bullish on the market, on the real estate market. I'm very bullish on where we're at. I think rates, although if they do go up, and hopefully don't get too much there, but if they do you go up, is manageable. We are qualifying people. Like you said, the qualification rate much higher rates what they're actually boring right now. So there is some play for an increased to rate. So I'm bullish on that. And, and I do think I said it's...

...an inflationary environment, that's going to sort of help the valid help the values. And if it is an inflation your environment, you want to get an own assets because if you're hold in cash when there's an inflasher environment, you're going to you're dead, basically, you know. So it's you won't grow your net worth at all. What's your thoughts about overseas property? You know, rather than buying where, you are buying where it's best on the planet for whatever your goals are. I think there's great opportunities everywhere. I just don't what I don't know, I don't invest in, okay, and so I like to invest what I'm comfortable with. And if you are comfortable in the market and London, which is obviously high price market, or Greece or Athi's where you know, then go ahead, but I wouldn't invest into areas that I'm not comfortable with personally. I'd like to do all your research and understand the market and but yes, there will be opportunities, I'm sure everywhere they'll be opportunities and I just I don't know enough about it to really make advice on that. And that's you know, even but my money there, you know, and you've never done it. No, no, I stick to what I know. No, property back in Greece, in the in the birthday. No, no, not aware of but I know it's just no, I really like to be conservative that approach and even within Montreal there certain areas that I will invest in the certain like although it might be good, a good opportunity, I'm not investing area that's don't know as much. I like to sort almost have an arbitrage situation where you know, I know it's undervalued. Or I know that I'm buying at a certain price, which is expensive, but I know I can optimize the rents and optimize the building and create some value there. So if I'm doing that, I have to know the area and that's really where constrom after time, there's people who seem to be able to buy a property every year, every year to a year. You know, it's their main strategy. And they're not necessarily flipping either. They're buying, maybe renovating, refinancing, and they just keep going and going and going. But a lot of people, when they go to the broker, they realize they can borrow against one, pity, and then maybe they can refinance it and get their second one. But when they start hitting their third investment, they haven't been able to accrue anymore capital for the down payments. It seems like they get stuck at that point and you know, commercial lending isn't really an option for them. You know, either. How how do these people, these other people do it? They always just being creative with where there's sourcing a down payment. Is it always a case where they just have a lot of cash flow, like they have a really high paying job or they own a couple of businesses and that's returning cash which they turn into the property market. Because you see the flip side of this. You see the clients and how they're able to accrue so many properties. So what's the most common like formula for consistent accumulation of properties? I think it's buying well. Okay, first number one is because you need a down payment. So you need to you need to have the money for the downpayment, whether it's through a refinance or what are the way, but you need money for the down paying. But if you buy well, you optimize it, then you're able to refinance and you buy something else. And that's what I've seen. Yes, prices have gone up in the market. I'm crazy. So everybody's able to refinance and get money out. But it's really you make one in the buy, you make one in the vision. Right, if you're buying at the top of the market, that's it. You're buying at you know, a new construction condo that has you know whatever. Basically you can't refinancing a or two. You're stuck there for certain amount of time and then you know you're a cumulated some wealth because at it will go up a little bit, but you won't. You won't people to scale like that. The people have really made done well, and I've been really scaled as they've used intelligent financing sources to their advantage by buying, renovating or optimizing and then refinancing and use the money for something like that and doing that whole process again, but being also very, very, you know, very careful what you were you positioning your money, and not just buy to buy. People who buy to buy will eventually get burnt and it's going to bring out and it's again when you're losing using leverage. If you make a mistake, it's going to cost you money as well. Say to be careful, and so on my end it's really the the players who are doing this know the situation and understand the value. I'm a friend in Ottawa. He buys a house, he says, well, there's x amount square feet, I'm going to put a twenty unit building on that and he knows the value, how much she's going to do with the bank. He knows exactly every step of the way. Amazing job he's doing, but he has so much, so much knowledge, so almost unfair. So really the if you want to get into Abra, where bots into invent like just learn, learn about the different areas, contract a certain amount of areas and try to look for the arbitrage opportunities, and there's always an opportunity. That's understand where it's at and just be careful what you were you put your money and sounds like leverage, specialization, just getting familiar practice doing a certain strategy and learning from it. So last question.

I think we'll see the future for a group artist, group Orbis and Teddy. You own a lot of property. You said you want to double the size of you know how many people you've got working with group Orbius. I've always been curious, like a person like yourself, when your property is like this strategy, do you plan on just like that's that's your legacy, you pass that on to the family, or is there a point where one day you sell it and then buy a big yacht? And then with the business, same story, like at some point I assume you would retire, would you sell the business or does it maintain ownership in the family and it's you know, you hope maybe some of your children take over, or you just take cash flow and that's what you're your family onwards. Like what's the plan for the future? It's hard to say what the future is going to be. I am I'm just focus on really the next year, two now, you know, it would I would be on a big yacht. And so you know, I like to work, I like to vacation, they get me wrong, you know, and I like to go Florida every so often. But you know, I think that I was get bored of that after Smoun time. And whether I sell or whatever, it's going to happen. I'm open again. You'd always be open to all the different opportunities to open what's happening and in the future. But I'm not going to just this is not going to be like I build it up to sell. This is not what I want. It's really what I'm building something that I truly think there's value and I think that there's a future here. On the flip side, I don't necessarily want to just can this over to my children or hand over. You know, I think that they have to work for what they you know, what they get in life, and you know, you know, I think you want help them out and support them with you, educcasionally, subturber, support that maybe was starting in their store, but do you want to build their own legacy as well and maybe, you know, a certain time may build able to donate some money to different causes and to grow within that type of scope as well. So I you know, I do have some plan, but but on my end it's really just I'm focused on on the growth, immediate growth, of Orbis, and I think that's a huge potential here in Canada and Kitt back especially the market shifting and and you know what, we'll see how far we can go. I think that's seen other stories I've been really, really good and you know, try to model after some of them and seeing how how to grow that and having the right people around you is the key for me there. Okay, Great. I do have one more question, Daddy. It's for the for the audience. Really, if a person's been listening to this and they're like, I am really interested in becoming a mortgage broker, they're not necessarily Mon't you all? Of course, they could be anywhere on the planet. What type of person is well suited to become a mortgage broker and bearing in mind their obviously starting from scratch. So you know what is what's the strategy today to get into the mortgage brokering world. So what I look for in somebody it's really a go getter, somebody who's not shy, although, you know, maybe when I first started I wish I but it's learning to sort of get out of your your comfort zone. And somebody's hungry, somebody wants to achieve and it's good to the numbers analytical. So if you're you don't want to work, if you're lazy, which some people launch more, which is fine. You know, it's not really the job for you. It's there's a lot of you can't get too stressed out because it's a very high ticket sizes. So you can be going for making tenzero was one hour, the next the bank refuses it and your your law. You made zero. So like people who can't control their emotions or are very dressed, this is not the job for you. But if somebody's even Keel, and again it's you learn as you as you go. But so's you can kill, is very hungry, is focused, they will achieve, they will have success and you've enjoy the numbers. You just don't do this for the money, to actually enjoy the business, enjoy investing into something that is really interesting. And you know that's the key is somebody just says I I want to make you a hundred thousand and one it won't. It won't work because you just can think about the money. And whatever deal I do, I don't think about the money, think about what I have to do. In the end you'll make money, but it's really that the person, and that's all I look from people, people who are motivated. If you're not motivated, if you're not hungry, it's not going to work out. As a matter how many people you know in the industry. There you know you have to be a people person. I would assume write because you're gonna spend a lot of time interacting with people. Yes, as you can't be shy. If people per person, you have to be able to go on public and, you know, not necessarily beg for business, but ask for business and and and just being, you know, it to be smart, because the one to have made good money they have been focused, they have been they've treated it as a business and they're not just, you know, randomly working one day the next day they take the day off. They're consistent in what they do and it's really you know, going out and just trying to do the same thing every day made you that you had you had success, to keep on pushing it, you know, and keep under the right the right actions and steing. You have the right mindsets. They motivated Nice. All right, teddy, thank you so...

...much. If someone wants to get in touch with you and any other website you want to send people to, what are the contact points? So if you want to, you know, you can email me at well, the best ways info a group Orbitscom and go straight to me if you have any group of an e. that's the French way and you free to email me and you know, if you have any questions, feel you know. I'm open to anything. It's a it's a pleasure, Yarrow. Thank you very much for having me. I think it was a great experience and I'm sure we'll talk to you. Thanks, Teddy, and I'll put the group orbits website with the links to the the show notes and everything as well. But thank you for the time. Thank you. Take care. Help you enjoy that interview with Teddy. It was fantastic to share a story from the world of financing and property investing on invested capital. I have obviously a lot of startup founders and Teddy of course, started his own mortgage brokerage, so there is a start up story to learn from here. But I also really appreciated his insight into the financing of property purchases and, of course, his own strategy as a property investor over the years. It's a fun industry, it's an exciting industry. I think a certain personality type would really benefit and could seriously make you know, amazing cash flow if you're the kind of person who loves to talk to people meet people. But I especially feel is an opportunity for those who commit to becoming a mortgage broker or working in basically any type of finance or property investing that kind of world. It seems to really reward people who do a good job of building up a base of relationships with ancillary services and companies and people that work in them. For example, Teddy working with a lot of real estate agents and vice versa, real estate agents working with a lot of mortgage brokage and bankers. You get that kind of referral process going and once those relationships are really cemented they become like consistent sources of new leads. I think back to my own experience here in Montreal. I landed, as you know, a new person coming to stay in Montreal and by a property and I initially did some Google search to find real estate agent to help me with the just getting a basic understanding, and my Google search led me to some some real estate agents that I contacted and had some good conversations. I actually met a couple. One of them drove me around some areas, but none of them really really, you know, grab my attention and were trying to go above and beyond. At the same time as I was looking for a realistic age and I was also looking for a mortgage broker, and it's same thing. I went to Google, I searched for Montreal mortgage broker and I came across this gentleman named George. He had one of the highest ranking websites. You know, SEO is so important for these type of services, especially local based SEO. I get in touch with George, we have a great phone call. The end of the phone call he's basically telling me what I don't think I can help you because I don't specialize in the type of financing you need, but I do have some contacts and also, do you need a real estate agent? And I said, you know, I have someone I kind of start working with, and he basically convinced me to meet with a friend of his name Anna, real estate agent here in Montreal, who had then met with who was just so much more motivated and, you know, excited to work with me. It's a bit of a funny story, but she also, at the time, and we're talking around two thousand and eighteen, I think it was our nineteen, she was invested in Bitcoin and I was like, well, I haven't met many realistic agents that, you know, are invested in Bitcoiner know a bitcoin is. So I also took that as a positive sign of forward thinking, kind of up to date realistic agent. So I started working with Anna, and Anna then connected me with Teddy, who was on, you know, the guest today for the podcast, and that was all that. Through these connections and relationships, you know, they all refer to each other because they built these relationships and they've, you know, pass clients back and forth, whether they need financing or real estate agent services and so on. And for a person who's getting into the these industries, assuming you you know you do the hard work of those first one to three years. I think Teddy story at the start was a good example. You build up these contacts and then this amazing thing happens where the word of mouth starts to take over and that expands your initial base of clients, which then it's like a Flywheel, a compounding effect. Those clients bring in more clients, those relationships with realistic agents and brokers bring in more clients and you don't have to kind of like hustle as hard to make those first contacts because all the work you did in the past is starting to really just fill your calendar with meetings and opportunities and obviously doing the service for your clients, and that to me felt similar to any kind of small business analogy. Often, when you get that kind of product market fit or service market fit and people start to really benefit from what you do, they do start talking. You Start Building a few key referral relationships with the kind of people who can send you the right potential clients and vice versa. You can potentially send them the right people. May maybe not, but you just have that relationship in place and then it just starts to build up and then suddenly you know your leads are all coming from previous clients and previous relationships...

...instead of these new people you've had to meet or paid advertising or, you know, all those traditional forms of marketing and advertising that are you know, obviously they take resources in terms of money to make work, where the relationships in the word of mouth can just be running out there without you being involved anymore. So I loved hearing that part of Teddy Story and also that that is a key strategy that he's passed on to all the brokers that work in his company, group Orbois. To so great interview. Hopefully you took something from it, regardless of your own strategies with cash flow from properties or financing investments or just even the future of this kind of space, as we talked about a few different topics, and who knows, maybe you might decide to get into mortgage brokering yourself. As you can tell, it is sort of like it's like having your own business and you do have the potential to earn pretty significant cash flow and then naturally you you will understand the opportunity to invest in property and very likely turn that mortgage broker in cash flow back into your own property investments. Okay, so if everything that you've heard today appeals to maybe someone you know and your family or your colleague or partner, anyone you think my benefit from hearing from Teddy and this story, please share this episode with the best of capital. It's episode number twenty seven now with Teddy cares, and just send it to them either directly with a link to the post on my blog. That's why a r o dot blog, or you can share the the link on spotify or on apple itunes or on Google podcast. It's all the most common popular APPS are available. You'll find invested capital. You can just just search for rested capital, search for Yarrow. You'll find the show. Make sure when you're there you subscribe, you follow, you hit the Plus Button, whatever it is, so that you get all my episodes as I release them, and I've got a lot in the queue. I've been really doing many interviews recently with quite a variety of different types of specialists in making money and growing capital and just new modern forms of business defy Crypto, obviously, with property today, and financing, of course, startups like Sass, you know Mna, really interesting topics. I'm really enjoying doing these interviews and of course there's more coming up as well, so make sure you don't miss them. Subscribe to vested capital and, if you have time and you really appreciate it this, I would really appreciate it if you would leave a review, five star review, just give me a sentence saying how much you like to show. That really helps with the rankings of all these episodes in Apple Itunes, which still, presently at least, is the dominant player in podcasts. Spotify is catching up, but the more reviews you make, the better. I'll have access to new audience, which then, of course, in turn, means I can make more episodes. I have access to more resources and, you know, more appealing to sponsors, which means I can then build a team and bring in more amazing guests, higher quality guests, more famous guests, more frequent podcast it's better for you. So I really appreciate if you could do that. Just take five minutes now, open up the Apple Itunes link for vested capital and Click the review button in your itunes APP, the podcast APP, and that would be amazing and I'd be eternally grateful. Okay, my name is yarrow and I was speak to you on the very next episode of best the capital. Thanks for listening by by.

In-Stream Audio Search

NEW

Search across all episodes within this podcast

Episodes (86)